From zarquin at ucc.asn.au Fri Aug 1 15:45:25 2008 From: zarquin at ucc.asn.au (Alwyn Lloyd) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 15:45:25 +0800 (WST) Subject: [UCCBball] The Game! In-Reply-To: <20080731011831.GA9296@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> References: <20080626104635.ul7p1pv6m8wgs4gc@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080627160836.4o5wdtod0ckkksc0@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080627192450.keytd0yg8oo08ws4@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080704165505.88hwnocnpckkwkg8@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080731011831.GA9296@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jul 2008, Andrew Bailey wrote: > Which reminds me. AT the moment the chances of me playing look fairly > dim. FOr some reason I seem to have hurt my shoulder/chest somehow. It > might have got a knock last game. ANyway it really hurts to do things > like breathe deeply and run. Anyway I'm going to see a doctor today and > I'll see how It feels on saturday, but odds are I won't make it. How was the doctors trip?? > > That all said, IF we are stupidly short of players I can turn up and > play if required. > > Andrew. > > > On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 09:06:04AM +0800, Alwyn Lloyd wrote: >> >> We are playing at 12:10 >> >> >> Tommo: yours at 11:30? >> _______________________________________________ >> Basketball mailing list >> Basketball at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au >> http://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball > > -- > "The hot dog eating contest is not only a beautiful display of athleticism, > it is a fundamental way for citizens of all nations to display patriotism," > - Wayne Norbitz > _______________________________________________ > Basketball mailing list > Basketball at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au > http://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball > From acolyte at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Fri Aug 1 17:40:51 2008 From: acolyte at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (Andrew Bailey) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:40:51 +0800 Subject: [UCCBball] The Game! In-Reply-To: References: <20080627160836.4o5wdtod0ckkksc0@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080627192450.keytd0yg8oo08ws4@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080704165505.88hwnocnpckkwkg8@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080731011831.GA9296@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <20080801094051.GA3298@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> On Fri, Aug 01, 2008 at 03:45:25PM +0800, Alwyn Lloyd wrote: > > > On Thu, 31 Jul 2008, Andrew Bailey wrote: > > Which reminds me. AT the moment the chances of me playing look fairly > > dim. FOr some reason I seem to have hurt my shoulder/chest somehow. It > > might have got a knock last game. ANyway it really hurts to do things > > like breathe deeply and run. Anyway I'm going to see a doctor today and > > I'll see how It feels on saturday, but odds are I won't make it. > > How was the doctors trip?? > > I have a sprained rotor cuff apparently. I'll see how I feel tomorrow, but it's unlikely I'll be at basketball. Assume I'm not playing. > > > > > > > That all said, IF we are stupidly short of players I can turn up and > > play if required. > > > > Andrew. > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 09:06:04AM +0800, Alwyn Lloyd wrote: > >> > >> We are playing at 12:10 > >> > >> > >> Tommo: yours at 11:30? > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Basketball mailing list > >> Basketball at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au > >> http://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball > > > > -- > > "The hot dog eating contest is not only a beautiful display of athleticism, > > it is a fundamental way for citizens of all nations to display patriotism," > > - Wayne Norbitz > > _______________________________________________ > > Basketball mailing list > > Basketball at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au > > http://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball > > > _______________________________________________ > Basketball mailing list > Basketball at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au > http://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball -- "The hot dog eating contest is not only a beautiful display of athleticism, it is a fundamental way for citizens of all nations to display patriotism," - Wayne Norbitz From tommo at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Fri Aug 8 10:36:20 2008 From: tommo at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (tommo at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 10:36:20 +0800 Subject: [UCCBball] Game tomorrow Message-ID: <20080808103620.w6yliphzsc0w4s4w@secure.ucc.asn.au> According to the website we're playing at 12:10. Olly, are you doing lifts this time? Also, who are we missing? I seem to recall that there were going to be a few people sitting this one out. Do we want to bring in Dunc or something? Tom. From acolyte at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Fri Aug 8 10:42:17 2008 From: acolyte at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (Andrew Bailey) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 10:42:17 +0800 Subject: [UCCBball] Game tomorrow In-Reply-To: <20080808103620.w6yliphzsc0w4s4w@secure.ucc.asn.au> References: <20080808103620.w6yliphzsc0w4s4w@secure.ucc.asn.au> Message-ID: <20080808024217.GA7726@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> On Fri, Aug 08, 2008 at 10:36:20AM +0800, tommo at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au wrote: > According to the website we're playing at 12:10. > The downloaded copy of the fixures says 2:40 pm to me? Have the fixtures been changed? It's the 9th tommoroow isn't it? Andrew. > Olly, are you doing lifts this time? Also, who are we missing? I seem > to recall that there were going to be a few people sitting this one > out. Do we want to bring in Dunc or something? > > Tom. > > _______________________________________________ > Basketball mailing list > Basketball at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au > http://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball -- "The hot dog eating contest is not only a beautiful display of athleticism, it is a fundamental way for citizens of all nations to display patriotism," - Wayne Norbitz From tommo at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Fri Aug 8 10:59:36 2008 From: tommo at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (tommo at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 10:59:36 +0800 Subject: [UCCBball] Game tomorrow In-Reply-To: <20080808024217.GA7726@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> References: <20080808103620.w6yliphzsc0w4s4w@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080808024217.GA7726@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <20080808105936.owgy04sjk0coswkk@secure.ucc.asn.au> Whoops, right you are. My bad. I was looking at the other Claremont. Tom. Quoting Andrew Bailey : > On Fri, Aug 08, 2008 at 10:36:20AM +0800, tommo at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au wrote: >> According to the website we're playing at 12:10. >> > > The downloaded copy of the fixures says 2:40 pm to me? Have the fixtures > been changed? > > It's the 9th tommoroow isn't it? > > Andrew. >> Olly, are you doing lifts this time? Also, who are we missing? I seem >> to recall that there were going to be a few people sitting this one >> out. Do we want to bring in Dunc or something? >> >> Tom. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Basketball mailing list >> Basketball at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au >> http://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball > > -- > "The hot dog eating contest is not only a beautiful display of athleticism, > it is a fundamental way for citizens of all nations to display patriotism," > - Wayne Norbitz > _______________________________________________ > Basketball mailing list > Basketball at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au > http://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball > From omailes at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Fri Aug 8 19:43:28 2008 From: omailes at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (omailes at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 19:43:28 +0800 Subject: [UCCBball] Game tomorrow In-Reply-To: <20080808103620.w6yliphzsc0w4s4w@secure.ucc.asn.au> References: <20080808103620.w6yliphzsc0w4s4w@secure.ucc.asn.au> Message-ID: <20080808194328.0z7p2345a8ow0sws@secure.ucc.asn.au> Quoting tommo at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au: > Olly, are you doing lifts this time? Yes, outside your place at 2:10, this goes for you as well Alwyn. In terms of players, if Andrew is playing we will have 7 or 8 as far as I can tell, Kieron is unavailable, but we will have Chas, Dave, James, Alwyn, Andrew, Tommo, me and possibly Evan (haven't heard anything either way). I'd say we'll be fine. Oliver From zarquin at ucc.asn.au Wed Aug 13 12:40:48 2008 From: zarquin at ucc.asn.au (Alwyn Lloyd) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 12:40:48 +0800 (WST) Subject: [UCCBball] Game tomorrow In-Reply-To: <20080808194328.0z7p2345a8ow0sws@secure.ucc.asn.au> References: <20080808103620.w6yliphzsc0w4s4w@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080808194328.0z7p2345a8ow0sws@secure.ucc.asn.au> Message-ID: Oh Great Olivercle, my spreadsheet says the gametime is 11:20 this week, against Mt Pleasant U18. Is this true?!? Alwyn From tommo at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Wed Aug 13 13:09:11 2008 From: tommo at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (tommo at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 13:09:11 +0800 Subject: [UCCBball] Game tomorrow In-Reply-To: References: <20080808103620.w6yliphzsc0w4s4w@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080808194328.0z7p2345a8ow0sws@secure.ucc.asn.au> Message-ID: <20080813130911.7c37ocdvxckcgcwo@secure.ucc.asn.au> That's what my spreadsheet says too, and this time I was definitely looking at the right Claremont team :P Alwyn, you should be at my place by 10:45. Olly and James, I'll pick you up a few minutes after that. Cheers, Tom. Quoting Alwyn Lloyd : > > Oh Great Olivercle, > my spreadsheet says the gametime is 11:20 this week, against Mt Pleasant > U18. > > Is this true?!? > > Alwyn > _______________________________________________ > Basketball mailing list > Basketball at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au > http://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball > From chas at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Tue Aug 19 13:54:35 2008 From: chas at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (Chas Stan-Bishop) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:54:35 +0800 (WST) Subject: [UCCBball] Ladder situation/training In-Reply-To: <20080813130911.7c37ocdvxckcgcwo@secure.ucc.asn.au> References: <20080808103620.w6yliphzsc0w4s4w@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080808194328.0z7p2345a8ow0sws@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080813130911.7c37ocdvxckcgcwo@secure.ucc.asn.au> Message-ID: Hey guys, So, Faith did indeed beat Bently, which leaves us a (slim) chance of making the finals. To do so, AFAICT, we need to beat Claremont White this week, _and_ Sheltering Tree needs to beat Bently. So, not too likely, but certainly possible. With that in mind, were we actually going to have a training session of some sort? Tommo, you mentioned the Rec centre the other day. I don't suppose you've looked into that? If Rec centre isn't available, venue is still the big issue. Chas From tommo at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Tue Aug 19 14:38:35 2008 From: tommo at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (tommo at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:38:35 +0800 Subject: [UCCBball] Ladder situation/training In-Reply-To: References: <20080808103620.w6yliphzsc0w4s4w@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080808194328.0z7p2345a8ow0sws@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080813130911.7c37ocdvxckcgcwo@secure.ucc.asn.au> Message-ID: <20080819143835.n9p7favjksowsgwc@secure.ucc.asn.au> I haven't had a chance to look into it, unfortunately. Sorry, I've been pretty busy and it slipped my mind. What day ended up being suggested? Was it today or tomorrow? If we can't get training organised, I'd like to suggest two things... 1) we get a bit of open discussion of strategy going on the mailing list, so that we can come up with an idea of which specific areas we need to focus on in the game. 2) we all meet 20-30 minutes before the game on Saturday to discuss them in more detail (possibly with badly drawn diagrams). Tom. Quoting Chas Stan-Bishop : > Hey guys, > > So, Faith did indeed beat Bently, which leaves us a (slim) chance of > making the finals. To do so, AFAICT, we need to beat Claremont White this > week, _and_ Sheltering Tree needs to beat Bently. > > So, not too likely, but certainly possible. > > With that in mind, were we actually going to have a training session of > some sort? Tommo, you mentioned the Rec centre the other day. I don't > suppose you've looked into that? If Rec centre isn't available, venue is > still the big issue. > > Chas > > _______________________________________________ > Basketball mailing list > Basketball at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au > http://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball > From chas at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Wed Aug 20 14:29:44 2008 From: chas at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (Chas Stan-Bishop) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:29:44 +0800 (WST) Subject: [UCCBball] Ladder situation/training In-Reply-To: <20080819143835.n9p7favjksowsgwc@secure.ucc.asn.au> References: <20080808103620.w6yliphzsc0w4s4w@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080808194328.0z7p2345a8ow0sws@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080813130911.7c37ocdvxckcgcwo@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080819143835.n9p7favjksowsgwc@secure.ucc.asn.au> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Aug 2008, tommo at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au wrote: > I haven't had a chance to look into it, unfortunately. Sorry, I've > been pretty busy and it slipped my mind. S'alright. Odds are nothing would have happened anyway. ;) > What day ended up being suggested? Was it today or tomorrow? It was today (Wednesday). > If we can't get training organised, I'd like to suggest two things... > > 1) we get a bit of open discussion of strategy going on the mailing > list, so that we can come up with an idea of which specific areas we > need to focus on in the game. Yeah, I've had some thoughts. I might post them later on. > 2) we all meet 20-30 minutes before the game on Saturday to discuss > them in more detail (possibly with badly drawn diagrams). I could bring our little whiteboard. ;) Chas. From zarquin at ucc.asn.au Wed Aug 20 14:32:40 2008 From: zarquin at ucc.asn.au (Alwyn Lloyd) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:32:40 +0800 (WST) Subject: [UCCBball] Ladder situation/training In-Reply-To: References: <20080808103620.w6yliphzsc0w4s4w@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080808194328.0z7p2345a8ow0sws@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080813130911.7c37ocdvxckcgcwo@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080819143835.n9p7favjksowsgwc@secure.ucc.asn.au> Message-ID: > I could bring our little whiteboard. ;) I hope you have an appropriate style matching tracksuite to go with it.... :) [zar] From tommo at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Wed Aug 20 14:51:03 2008 From: tommo at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (tommo at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:51:03 +0800 Subject: [UCCBball] Ladder situation/training In-Reply-To: References: <20080808103620.w6yliphzsc0w4s4w@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080808194328.0z7p2345a8ow0sws@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080813130911.7c37ocdvxckcgcwo@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080819143835.n9p7favjksowsgwc@secure.ucc.asn.au> Message-ID: <20080820145103.fiesbtd04cowwggs@secure.ucc.asn.au> Quoting Alwyn Lloyd : >> I could bring our little whiteboard. ;) > > I hope you have an appropriate style matching tracksuite to go with it.... Do you really have a little whiteboard Alwyn? All kidding around aside, that'd actually be really handy. Here's what I'd identify as the key areas: -offensive structure/strategy (initial placement, standard cuts to make, hi/low postups, ball movement, etc) We covered this quite a bit when we had our last "strategy talk", and it ended up working really well in the game. Especially nice would be more cutting diagonally through the key, more cutting off other people's post-ups/drives, quicker ball movement with less hesitation and people calling for the ball LOUDLY. (This is the main point we'll want to cover when we meet before the game, with diagrams and whatnot) -boxing out. I don't really know what else we can do about this. It's something people need to learn via repetition/training, so that it becomes an automatic, habitual thing. It's all good and well knowing in theory what you're meant to do, but if you get out on the court and then don't remember to do it, then it's all pointless. And we still don't do it at least 90% of the time. -passing quality. This is pretty straightforward. Keep the passes smart and straight, and don't panic if you get into trouble (better to get a 5-sec violation than an intercepted pass). We tend to do this pretty well these days, especially when we do the first point (offensive structure/strategy) well, but it's still worth keeping in mind. -offensive boards. We never, ever have them, except when someone rebounds off their own drive/cut. I get the impression that the main issue here is people not thinking of the keyway as "somewhere I go" in offense. If you're anywhere within the 3-point line, you should be getting into the key and crashing offensive boards. If you're outside the 3-point line, you should be covering the "mid range" rebounding area or drifting back to cover the fast break. And under no circumstances should we ever have 4-5 players outside the 3-point line when a shot goes up. -2nd half lag. We get tired. That's going to happen regardless, because with a couple of exceptions, none of us are especially fit. The important thing here is to use our timeouts and subs effectively. Getting psysically tired is actually only half the problem - it's the lack of focus that kills us. Anyone want to respond to any of this, or mention any areas I haven't covered? Tom. From acolyte at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Wed Aug 20 15:02:23 2008 From: acolyte at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (Andrew Bailey) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 15:02:23 +0800 Subject: [UCCBball] Ladder situation/training In-Reply-To: <20080820145103.fiesbtd04cowwggs@secure.ucc.asn.au> References: <20080808103620.w6yliphzsc0w4s4w@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080808194328.0z7p2345a8ow0sws@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080813130911.7c37ocdvxckcgcwo@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080819143835.n9p7favjksowsgwc@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080820145103.fiesbtd04cowwggs@secure.ucc.asn.au> Message-ID: <20080820070223.GA10801@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 02:51:03PM +0800, tommo at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au wrote: > Quoting Alwyn Lloyd : > > >> I could bring our little whiteboard. ;) > > > > I hope you have an appropriate style matching tracksuite to go with it.... > > Do you really have a little whiteboard Alwyn? All kidding around > aside, that'd actually be really handy. > > Here's what I'd identify as the key areas: > > -offensive structure/strategy (initial placement, standard cuts to > make, hi/low postups, ball movement, etc) We covered this quite a bit > when we had our last "strategy talk", and it ended up working really > well in the game. Especially nice would be more cutting diagonally > through the key, more cutting off other people's post-ups/drives, > quicker ball movement with less hesitation and people calling for the > ball LOUDLY. (This is the main point we'll want to cover when we meet > before the game, with diagrams and whatnot) > There are a couple of set plays I'd love to practice with our wings, not just pumping it down to Tommo in low post but also looking at wing to high cut in the key. We also need to work out how we can run both an inside and outside offense, and when we should do it. > -boxing out. I don't really know what else we can do about this. It's > something people need to learn via repetition/training, so that it > becomes an automatic, habitual thing. It's all good and well knowing > in theory what you're meant to do, but if you get out on the court and > then don't remember to do it, then it's all pointless. And we still > don't do it at least 90% of the time. > > -passing quality. This is pretty straightforward. Keep the passes > smart and straight, and don't panic if you get into trouble (better to > get a 5-sec violation than an intercepted pass). We tend to do this > pretty well these days, especially when we do the first point > (offensive structure/strategy) well, but it's still worth keeping in > mind. > > -offensive boards. We never, ever have them, except when someone > rebounds off their own drive/cut. I get the impression that the main > issue here is people not thinking of the keyway as "somewhere I go" in > offense. If you're anywhere within the 3-point line, you should be > getting into the key and crashing offensive boards. If you're outside > the 3-point line, you should be covering the "mid range" rebounding > area or drifting back to cover the fast break. And under no > circumstances should we ever have 4-5 players outside the 3-point line > when a shot goes up. > Yep, I seem to be getting position too close the basket and getting out rebounded. Mostly I think because I am cutting for a feed in pass low that never happens. I might try crashing boards later and higher, but the downside is that then I wont be inside for a dish off. > -2nd half lag. We get tired. That's going to happen regardless, > because with a couple of exceptions, none of us are especially fit. > The important thing here is to use our timeouts and subs effectively. > Getting psysically tired is actually only half the problem - it's the > lack of focus that kills us. If your tired sub, we've got lots of subs. > > Anyone want to respond to any of this, or mention any areas I haven't covered? > > Tom. > > _______________________________________________ > Basketball mailing list > Basketball at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au > http://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball -- "The hot dog eating contest is not only a beautiful display of athleticism, it is a fundamental way for citizens of all nations to display patriotism," - Wayne Norbitz From chas at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Thu Aug 21 04:01:32 2008 From: chas at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (Chas Stan-Bishop) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 04:01:32 +0800 (WST) Subject: [UCCBball] Ladder situation/training In-Reply-To: <20080820145103.fiesbtd04cowwggs@secure.ucc.asn.au> References: <20080808103620.w6yliphzsc0w4s4w@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080808194328.0z7p2345a8ow0sws@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080813130911.7c37ocdvxckcgcwo@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080819143835.n9p7favjksowsgwc@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080820145103.fiesbtd04cowwggs@secure.ucc.asn.au> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Aug 2008, tommo at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au wrote: > Quoting Alwyn Lloyd : > >>> I could bring our little whiteboard. ;) >> >> I hope you have an appropriate style matching tracksuite to go with it.... > > Do you really have a little whiteboard Alwyn? All kidding around > aside, that'd actually be really handy. No, it'd be _me_ that said I had a whiteboard, and yes, I really do. ;) Actually, I brought it to the last game to show Chris in case he was there, but he wasn't. I was planning on bringing it this week, since the ascii diagrams I'm about to draw will probably be confusing. ;P I've been trying to come up with minor modifications we can make to our standard offensive pattern that will be helpful in stretching the defence, and I've got a couple of possibilities, plus a slightly different offence that we might want to consider. Note that at this stage I don't think we can be trying to fix basic deficiencies (for this game, that is), so I'm trying to work around them instead. I don't think anything that relies on guards having the confidence and experience to cut to the right places is going to help very much, for example. Okay, first up, an option to get the ball into the corner while dealing with that pesky 1-2-2 defence (something we are very bad at, and something I think Claremont White are quite likely to run). Set up: ---------------------------------- 4 5 X X 2 X X 3 X 1* Precise location of forwards may vary. X's are defenders (obviously), * is the ball. Hopefully that makes some sense. Our standard option here is: 1 passes to 3 who gets double-teamed on the sideline and trapped and turns the ball over. :P The alternative: 1 passes to 3 (or 2) and then cuts under 3's defender into the corner, and recieves the ball again from 3. Meanwhile, 2 replaces 1 at the top: e.g. ---------------------------------- X5 1* X 4 X X 3 X 2 The forwards do their thing, hopefully resulting in an open shot from high post, or a 1-1 low post. After making the pass to 4 or 5, or the swing back to 3, 1 cuts through to the other side of the court for the continuity, possibly picking up a dish from the forwards on the way through, and is thus inside to help on boards. It's pretty much what we already run, except with the PG cutting to the corner after passing, thus avoiding the easy trap. Should work even better against a 2-3 zone, since it will really stretch the defence in the corners, something else we don't really do atm. The cut through from 1 becomes more important in this case, due to the three low defenders. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Second option, also a slight variation on something we kinda already do (Tommo moving out to the 3-point line in the corner), but this requires more inside game from the wings, so I supect this will only work when the ball goes to the more forward-like guards (Alwyn/Dave/Kieron). Same setup as before. In this case, rather than the PG cutting through, the ball-side forward cuts out to the corner. ---------------------------------- 4 5 2 3* 1 (No defence shown) 3 now passes to 5, and 3 cuts diagonally down inside and makes a nuisance of himself. Meanwhile, 4 cuts high and ball-side. 1 and 2 rotate around the 3 point line, filling in the vacancy left by 3. ---------------------------------- 5* 3 4 1 2 If the ball goes back to 1, 3 cuts back out to the weak-side wing, 5 cuts to high post and 4 cuts towards the basket before cutting out to the weakside wing for the continuity. ---------------------------------- 4 3 5 1 2* Note that 3 does all the inside cuts on the part of the "guards", while 1 and 2 are always outside players. The main reason for this play is it gives Tommo open outside shots while not destroying our inside game or our spacing for the swing. This would preferably be a "sometimes" play, although that does require 3 to be switched on. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Finally, something a bit different. I saw this a while ago, and it's something we might want to think about, particularly when we only have one forward on court. It's the 41 corners offence. It's very simple, applicable versus any zone, and doesn't require any skills we don't have. ---------------------------------- 5 5 | | 4 \ / 3 5-------5 2 1 The 4 perimeter plays simply pass the ball around, and the inside player simply follows the ball (path shown). I would expect that 3 and 4 would probably cut as soon as 5 recieves the ball. I'm not sure what you do about options for the kick back out if nothing happens inside. Possibly 3 and 4 continue thier cuts through to the opposite sides. Or maybe the ballside guard cuts down to the corner while the other stays high for safety? Anyway. This should handle 3-out defences really well. It should still work against a 2-3, either by drawing one of the low players out to the corners (giving 2 on 2 down low, assuming the weak side corner cuts in, and assuming the ball-side corner can pass/drive around his defender) or by getting the ball into 5 on the free throw line (although this will need cuts inside from the perimeter players). Actually, playing this might even cause a switch to three out, unless the defence decides to not follow the swing at all. Which still works in our favour, since slowing down the play is exactly what we want. It'd also be really good to use as the game goes on, since it can run the defence ragged without much movement from the offence, asuming we can be patient for a change. ;) So yeah, I think it's worth considering. Any thoughts? Apologies for any lack of clarity. ASCII kinda sucks for basketball diagrams. I will bring the clipboard on Saturday. Chas From tommo at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Thu Aug 21 09:06:10 2008 From: tommo at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (tommo at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 09:06:10 +0800 Subject: [UCCBball] Ladder situation/training In-Reply-To: References: <20080808103620.w6yliphzsc0w4s4w@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080808194328.0z7p2345a8ow0sws@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080813130911.7c37ocdvxckcgcwo@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080819143835.n9p7favjksowsgwc@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080820145103.fiesbtd04cowwggs@secure.ucc.asn.au> Message-ID: <20080821090610.wo8iov0h5w4wkcos@secure.ucc.asn.au> Quoting Chas Stan-Bishop : > Okay, first up, an option to get the ball into the corner while dealing > with that pesky 1-2-2 defence (something we are very bad at, and > something I think Claremont White are quite likely to run). > > Set up: > > ---------------------------------- > > 4 5 > X X > > 2 X X 3 > X > 1* > > > Precise location of forwards may vary. X's are defenders (obviously), * is > the ball. > > Hopefully that makes some sense. Our standard option here is: 1 passes to > 3 who gets double-teamed on the sideline and trapped and turns the ball > over. :P > > The alternative: 1 passes to 3 (or 2) and then cuts under 3's defender > into the corner, and recieves the ball again from 3. Meanwhile, 2 replaces > 1 at the top: > e.g. > ---------------------------------- > > X5 1* > X > 4 > X X 3 > X > 2 > > > > The forwards do their thing, hopefully resulting in an open shot from high > post, or a 1-1 low post. After making the pass to 4 or 5, or the swing > back to 3, 1 cuts through to the other side of the court for the > continuity, possibly picking up a dish from the forwards on the way > through, and is thus inside to help on boards. > > It's pretty much what we already run, except with the PG cutting to the > corner after passing, thus avoiding the easy trap. I like this. The really important thing will be for 2 to make sure they fill the gap at the top, and for 1 to seriously run like hell, especially from wing across middle to the other wing if/when the ball swings to the other side. Otherwise our offense will end up lopsided and we'll lose our ability to move the ball quickly across the top. > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > Second option, also a slight variation on something we kinda already do > (Tommo moving out to the 3-point line in the corner), but this requires > more inside game from the wings, so I supect this will only work when the > ball goes to the more forward-like guards (Alwyn/Dave/Kieron). > > Same setup as before. In this case, rather than the PG cutting through, > the ball-side forward cuts out to the corner. > > ---------------------------------- > > 4 5 > > > 2 3* > > 1 > > (No defence shown) > > 3 now passes to 5, and 3 cuts diagonally down inside and makes a nuisance > of himself. Meanwhile, 4 cuts high and ball-side. 1 and 2 rotate around the 3 > point line, filling in the vacancy left by 3. > > > ---------------------------------- > > 5* > 3 > > 4 1 > > 2 > > > If the ball goes back to 1, 3 cuts back out to the weak-side wing, 5 cuts > to high post and 4 cuts towards the basket before cutting out to the > weakside wing for the continuity. > > ---------------------------------- > > 4 > > > 3 5 1 > > 2* > > Note that 3 does all the inside cuts on the part of the "guards", while 1 > and 2 are always outside players. > > The main reason for this play is it gives Tommo open outside shots while > not destroying our inside game or our spacing for the swing. This would > preferably be a "sometimes" play, although that does require 3 to be > switched on. Another good one. As you say, 3 will need to be very switched on for this. We typically start our plays this way, but then 3 remains stationary and either I shoot it (assuming here that I'm 5) or pass it back up to 3. So in these circumstances I'd suggest having one of our more aggressive cutters as the 3 (like Alwyn or Kieron). That cut by 4 to high post will also be pretty crucial for this play, to stretch out their defense on the ball-side. > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > Finally, something a bit different. I saw this a while ago, and it's > something we might want to think about, particularly when we only have one > forward on court. It's the 41 corners offence. It's very simple, > applicable versus any zone, and doesn't require any skills we don't have. > > > ---------------------------------- > > 5 5 > | | > 4 \ / 3 > 5-------5 > > 2 1 > > > The 4 perimeter plays simply pass the ball around, and the inside player > simply follows the ball (path shown). I would expect that 3 and 4 would > probably cut as soon as 5 recieves the ball. I'm not sure what you do > about options for the kick back out if nothing happens inside. Possibly 3 > and 4 continue thier cuts through to the opposite sides. Or maybe the > ballside guard cuts down to the corner while the other stays high for > safety? I'd recommend a slight variation on this. When the ball swings left, once it reaches 4, 3 should cut straight to high post, so we have both a high and a low. Likewise 4 should cut to high post when the ball reaches 3 on the right. When the ball swings back again (to 2 or 1, depending on which direction it went to start with), they cut back out to their original position, replaced at the high post by 5. The other important thing here would be offensive boards. We'd be left very exposed, especially in the instance that someone takes an outside shot, so we'd need at least 2 of the outside guys to make a strong push towards the key to get decent rebounding position. And, of course, if the ball goes into 5 and they start to move towards the hoop, we'll need AT LEAST one strong cut towards the hoop, both for passing options and rebounding position. Of course, the important thing with any of these plays is *movement*. If you're standing flat footed and there's a guy on/near you, then you're doing it wrong :) Tom. From acolyte at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Thu Aug 21 09:53:34 2008 From: acolyte at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (Andrew Bailey) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 09:53:34 +0800 Subject: [UCCBball] Ladder situation/training In-Reply-To: <20080821090610.wo8iov0h5w4wkcos@secure.ucc.asn.au> References: <20080808194328.0z7p2345a8ow0sws@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080813130911.7c37ocdvxckcgcwo@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080819143835.n9p7favjksowsgwc@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080820145103.fiesbtd04cowwggs@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080821090610.wo8iov0h5w4wkcos@secure.ucc.asn.au> Message-ID: <20080821015334.GB10801@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 09:06:10AM +0800, tommo at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au wrote: > Quoting Chas Stan-Bishop : > > > Okay, first up, an option to get the ball into the corner while dealing > > with that pesky 1-2-2 defence (something we are very bad at, and > > something I think Claremont White are quite likely to run). > > > > Set up: > > > > ---------------------------------- > > > > 4 5 > > X X > > > > 2 X X 3 > > X > > 1* > > > > > > Precise location of forwards may vary. X's are defenders (obviously), * is > > the ball. > > > > Hopefully that makes some sense. Our standard option here is: 1 passes to > > 3 who gets double-teamed on the sideline and trapped and turns the ball > > over. :P > > > > The alternative: 1 passes to 3 (or 2) and then cuts under 3's defender > > into the corner, and recieves the ball again from 3. Meanwhile, 2 replaces > > 1 at the top: > > e.g. > > ---------------------------------- > > > > X5 1* > > X > > 4 > > X X 3 > > X > > 2 > > > > > > > > The forwards do their thing, hopefully resulting in an open shot from high > > post, or a 1-1 low post. After making the pass to 4 or 5, or the swing > > back to 3, 1 cuts through to the other side of the court for the > > continuity, possibly picking up a dish from the forwards on the way > > through, and is thus inside to help on boards. > > > > It's pretty much what we already run, except with the PG cutting to the > > corner after passing, thus avoiding the easy trap. > > I like this. The really important thing will be for 2 to make sure > they fill the gap at the top, and for 1 to seriously run like hell, > especially from wing across middle to the other wing if/when the ball > swings to the other side. Otherwise our offense will end up lopsided > and we'll lose our ability to move the ball quickly across the top. > THe other thing that can happle here is that 3 can pass to 1 while he is in the key for the drive, when we have done this is the past it has been effective. > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > > Second option, also a slight variation on something we kinda already do > > (Tommo moving out to the 3-point line in the corner), but this requires > > more inside game from the wings, so I supect this will only work when the > > ball goes to the more forward-like guards (Alwyn/Dave/Kieron). > > > > Same setup as before. In this case, rather than the PG cutting through, > > the ball-side forward cuts out to the corner. > > > > ---------------------------------- > > > > 4 5 > > > > > > 2 3* > > > > 1 > > > > (No defence shown) > > > > 3 now passes to 5, and 3 cuts diagonally down inside and makes a nuisance > > of himself. Meanwhile, 4 cuts high and ball-side. 1 and 2 rotate around the 3 > > point line, filling in the vacancy left by 3. > > > > > > ---------------------------------- > > > > 5* > > 3 > > > > 4 1 > > > > 2 > > > > > > If the ball goes back to 1, 3 cuts back out to the weak-side wing, 5 cuts > > to high post and 4 cuts towards the basket before cutting out to the > > weakside wing for the continuity. > > > > ---------------------------------- > > > > 4 > > > > > > 3 5 1 > > > > 2* > > > > Note that 3 does all the inside cuts on the part of the "guards", while 1 > > and 2 are always outside players. > > > > The main reason for this play is it gives Tommo open outside shots while > > not destroying our inside game or our spacing for the swing. This would > > preferably be a "sometimes" play, although that does require 3 to be > > switched on. > > Another good one. As you say, 3 will need to be very switched on for > this. We typically start our plays this way, but then 3 remains > stationary and either I shoot it (assuming here that I'm 5) or pass it > back up to 3. So in these circumstances I'd suggest having one of our > more aggressive cutters as the 3 (like Alwyn or Kieron). That cut by 4 > to high post will also be pretty crucial for this play, to stretch out > their defense on the ball-side. > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > > Finally, something a bit different. I saw this a while ago, and it's > > something we might want to think about, particularly when we only have one > > forward on court. It's the 41 corners offence. It's very simple, > > applicable versus any zone, and doesn't require any skills we don't have. > > > > > > ---------------------------------- > > > > 5 5 > > | | > > 4 \ / 3 > > 5-------5 > > > > 2 1 > > > > > > The 4 perimeter plays simply pass the ball around, and the inside player > > simply follows the ball (path shown). I would expect that 3 and 4 would > > probably cut as soon as 5 recieves the ball. I'm not sure what you do > > about options for the kick back out if nothing happens inside. Possibly 3 > > and 4 continue thier cuts through to the opposite sides. Or maybe the > > ballside guard cuts down to the corner while the other stays high for > > safety? > > I'd recommend a slight variation on this. When the ball swings left, > once it reaches 4, 3 should cut straight to high post, so we have both > a high and a low. Likewise 4 should cut to high post when the ball > reaches 3 on the right. When the ball swings back again (to 2 or 1, > depending on which direction it went to start with), they cut back out > to their original position, replaced at the high post by 5. > > The other important thing here would be offensive boards. We'd be left > very exposed, especially in the instance that someone takes an outside > shot, so we'd need at least 2 of the outside guys to make a strong > push towards the key to get decent rebounding position. > > And, of course, if the ball goes into 5 and they start to move towards > the hoop, we'll need AT LEAST one strong cut towards the hoop, both > for passing options and rebounding position. > > Of course, the important thing with any of these plays is *movement*. > If you're standing flat footed and there's a guy on/near you, then > you're doing it wrong :) The problem is that we very rarely pass to players as they are moving. We really only pass to players who are stationary. This limits peoples desire to move as they basically don't get the ball if they do that. > > Tom. > > _______________________________________________ > Basketball mailing list > Basketball at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au > http://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball -- "The hot dog eating contest is not only a beautiful display of athleticism, it is a fundamental way for citizens of all nations to display patriotism," - Wayne Norbitz From tommo at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Thu Aug 21 10:21:44 2008 From: tommo at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (tommo at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 10:21:44 +0800 Subject: [UCCBball] Ladder situation/training In-Reply-To: <20080821015334.GB10801@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> References: <20080808194328.0z7p2345a8ow0sws@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080813130911.7c37ocdvxckcgcwo@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080819143835.n9p7favjksowsgwc@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080820145103.fiesbtd04cowwggs@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080821090610.wo8iov0h5w4wkcos@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080821015334.GB10801@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <20080821102144.gp0x7j6cgk84k8ok@secure.ucc.asn.au> Quoting Andrew Bailey : >> I like this. The really important thing will be for 2 to make sure >> they fill the gap at the top, and for 1 to seriously run like hell, >> especially from wing across middle to the other wing if/when the ball >> swings to the other side. Otherwise our offense will end up lopsided >> and we'll lose our ability to move the ball quickly across the top. >> > > THe other thing that can happle here is that 3 can pass to 1 while he is > in the key for the drive, when we have done this is the past it has been > effective. Yep, definitely. When we do it, the "wing passing to someone cutting from the top down into the key" thing works quite nicely. We should definitely be looking for it more often. >> Of course, the important thing with any of these plays is *movement*. >> If you're standing flat footed and there's a guy on/near you, then >> you're doing it wrong :) > > The problem is that we very rarely pass to players as they are moving. > We really only pass to players who are stationary. This limits peoples > desire to move as they basically don't get the ball if they do that. Oh, there's nothing wrong with receiving the ball in a stationary position (although we should be making an effort to pass to cutting players as well), as long as you're free. What I'm talking about is getting flat-footed when you've got a defender on/near you, in which case you're even less likely to have someone pass to you. At the very least people should be making a short dash away from their defender and towards the potential pass. Tom. From zarquin at ucc.asn.au Fri Aug 22 23:42:57 2008 From: zarquin at ucc.asn.au (Alwyn Lloyd) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 23:42:57 +0800 (WST) Subject: [UCCBball] Ladder situation/training In-Reply-To: <20080821090610.wo8iov0h5w4wkcos@secure.ucc.asn.au> References: <20080808103620.w6yliphzsc0w4s4w@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080808194328.0z7p2345a8ow0sws@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080813130911.7c37ocdvxckcgcwo@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080819143835.n9p7favjksowsgwc@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080820145103.fiesbtd04cowwggs@secure.ucc.asn.au> <20080821090610.wo8iov0h5w4wkcos@secure.ucc.asn.au> Message-ID: Hey All, i'm getting my own way there.. I'll see you all there at 10:50?? Cheers, Alwyn