[ucc] Services and Amenities fee : An update from your local hack

[castiglione at mac.com]

Having wrestled with my conscience vs my desire to not enter a 
flamewar, I still have to reply to this.

On Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 08:59 PM, James Cox wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 05:14  PM, Chris Coman wrote:
>> I think the A&S fee walks a happy medium of both allowing freedom of
>> association and allowing the guild to provide the services that 
>> students
>> need.
>
> The thing is that we have this great "freedom of association", but the 
> Guild is still getting 51% of the money.

Note the words 'both' and 'and'; this is a /compromise/. The percentage 
becomes rather irrelevant when you think that $55 is rather less than 
you would have paid to join the Guild this year.

>> One thing to look at, from a wider perspective, which I have certainly
>> gained since going to NUS this last month. Office Bearers (ie, pres, 
>> VP,
>> sec, treas, queer, womens, enviro, etc) at all other universities 
>> besides
>> WA uni's are PAID POSITIONS!
>
> And why is this so crash-hot? I'm paying enough for the professor, the 
> tute people, the lab supervisors for each of my units. The last thing 
> I want is another $400 going towards paying a bunch of losers to do 
> what amounts to nothing I need.

Where did that figure come from? The point, regardless, was that we are 
being provided a service cheaply, due to lowly-compensated volunteers, 
that students of other unis have to pay full price for.

>> What's it supposed to cover? Well. I don't know how involved you've 
>> been
>> with your student guild, but as many of you know, I've been quite 
>> involved
>> with mine, and even further than that, I've gone away to the National
>> Union of Students conference (just 2 weeks ago) and had a further 
>> shock to
>> my system at the actual work that guilds and unions do around the 
>> country
>> for students. Since most of us don't know any better, we just see this
>> discount centre at the guild, but the guild is there for many other
>> things. Firstly it provides the ability and supports the ongoing 
>> existance
>> of student run clubs, which I think we all appreciate in one way or
>> another. Secondly it provides representation to the university with
>> problems to do with your education, or anythign else about your uni 
>> life.
>
> I don't know about some slackers (in Arts? :p) but I haven't had a 
> problem with my education or uni life. The scare tactics are just 
> that: scare tactics.

Please note that stereotypes are just that: stereotypes. The only two 
Arts students that I know well are both very hard-working. Also, 
'haven't had problem' does not equal 'will not have problem'; across 
the whole student body, it in fact becomes 'many will have problems'. 
Think of it as compulsory insurance if it makes you feel better.

> Unfair marking? Give me a break. As long as all the students in the 
> course are marked the same, it doesn't matter how harshly or leniently 
> you were marked.

That's a rather silly point of view; marking is done by unit (and 
sometimes by assessment), not by course. If you happen to do a unit 
which is marked really harshly and Jim does one that's marked leniently 
(relatively) he has an unfair advantage over you. And what happens if 
the marker makes an error on an individual student's paper? The student 
may or may not be you... but if everybody gets the same representation, 
whoever it is gets a better chance to get things fixed.

>> The whole point of student guilds is not to just take on a lobbying 
>> role
>> that we've seen in the past few years. Guild should also be involved 
>> in
>> running Grass-Roots campaigns in order to try and change things that 
>> are
>> wrong with the world. Homophobia, Racism, Discrimination in all it's
>> forms. We like to think that these things are changing, and perhaps 
>> they
>> are, but without organisations constantly pushing the mindset that 
>> they
>> are wrong, things won't change.
>
> We could have a long-winded discussion about the distinct lack of 
> scholarships and representation for anyone who speaks English, is 
> male, and has a "European" background, or how proposals for 
> Gentleman's Societies and Male Common Rooms are continually knocked 
> back, or how you never see people writing in the Pelican about the 
> lack of males in teaching or nursing...

No doubt we could. Why would we? It's not like the historical balance 
of power has been over-redressed; anyone with those attributes already 
has considerable advantages. Males don't find it difficult to get into 
teaching or nursing, either - it just seems that most of them want more 
interesting jobs. Could it be that females might, too, but find it 
harder to get them? Surely "Dripping sarcasm" Not. There are very good 
/reasons/ why the current focus of society is on empowering those who 
are not white, male, caucasian and English-speaking - surely you don't 
disagree with that? You and I not getting extra advantages - beyond the 
ones conferred by our accidents of birth - is not a "thing that is 
wrong with the world". Hence there is no need for organisations to 
change it.

>> That's why the fee is important, or well,
>> in my rather considered and longwinded opinion at least, and really, 
>> how
>> often do you use your textbooks anyway? You can't take student
>> representation out on overnight loan from the closed reserve section 
>> of
>> the community.
>
> The fact is that you're forcing people to pay for something they will 
> probably never need. two-thirds of the people at UWA don't think that 
> they'll ever need it, that's for sure.

This is the key issue here, really. You don't want to pay for something 
that might not necessarily benefit you; there's quite a good chance 
that you could end up supporting others. That's.. kind of difficult to 
argue with. It's everybody's right to look out for their own interests, 
and a basic part of human nature. I do hope, though, that you can at 
least see why it is that people would consider that a rather selfish 
point of view? The idea of a student guild is cooperation; everybody 
puts in a little bit of effort in case they are the one that ends up 
needing it. Somebody has decided to force us to cooperate next year; I 
would have anyway. Feel free to consider this a bad thing.

>> The ECU guild fell apart, yes, however there has been a volunteer run 
>> guild still going,
>> doing very little with very little money, but it's been there. 
>> Hopefully
>> this year, with help from the other guilds in WA, it will start 
>> getting
>> back on it's feet and getting some infrastructure to be able to 
>> function
>> as a guild and to represent students at ECU (and perhaps try and 
>> improve
>> their social life on campus? *grin*)
>
> I didn't exactly see ECU split apart at the seams without having a 
> Guild with denerro...

..would /you/ have chosen to do your degree there?

>
> May the Guild grow rich, donate money to the Labor party, and be 
> outlawed when the Liberals come into power soon.
>
> [RME] ~Coxy

Leave out the last bit, and I'll agree with you:)

  - Thomas "Banana" Castiglione