[UCCBball] This weekend's game - offensive setup

[Andrew Bailey]

On Wed, Mar 04, 2009 at 02:33:23PM +0900, tommo at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au wrote:
> Quoting "Andrew Bailey" <acolyte at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>:
> 
> > My biggest overall issue is that this lends itself to a 'quick' or  
> > possibly rushed offense. I like us a bit better when we swing it  
> > down both sides pretty quickley.
> 
> Swinging the ball around is good, and I definitely still want us to do  
> it. I should clarify that I'm not suggesting this should be our  
> offense in every instance - just something for the point to kickstart  
> when they think it's appropriate by pushing the ball to either side.
> 
> The problem we encounter when we swing the ball down both sides is  
> that we never swing it far enough down to create any passing angles  
> that aren't already available to the point guard when they're at the  
> top. 95% of the time the only passing option that comes from it is to  
> pass it straight back up to the top again.
>

I don't agree with this as much. If you are in the low post and the wing
is in the right position you're pretty much open to a quick pass in my mind
but it would hurt to have a deep wing and point up. What won't work is the  
other forward cutting to high post. 
 
> I'm don't really agree with your assessment that it'll lead to a  
> rushed offense. Essentially, the setup I'm suggesting is really just a  
> different kind of swing offense - one which pushes the ball deeper  
> into the defensive area to create more of a scoring threat. When we  
> just pass the ball back and forth across the top area (which is what  
> our current swing tends to achieve), the only scoring threat we tend  
> to have is the occasional three-pointer or pass to high post.
> 

We don't really have that good deep jump shots either. The reason I think this
will lead to a rushed offence is that we have no one to pass to to get it to 
the other side . A good swing play will have the ball the other side before any
of our forwards could cut to that space( and they are the closest )

> >> >> 3. When the point does this, the wing on the same side drifts down
> >> >> towards the bassline, and the forward on the other-side post cuts up
> >> >> to the high post.
> >> >>a
> >
> > This is the bit I don't like as it ruins our spacing. we end up with  
> > four players on one side and an awful lot of congestion. In fact  
> > this a lot of what we do at the moment when our offense isn't  
> > working. I don't think we should aspire to shis structure.  
> > Especially as the week wing should really come accross to the top a  
> > bit for an outlet pass.
> 
> You're right that we get four players on one side, but I disagree that  
> it'll ruin our spacing. The four players will be well-spaced, with a  
> sizable box formation from high-to-low and key-to-sideline.
> 

Rememre there are some defenders in there as well and you tend to post up 
quite high. There really isn't anywhere for the other forward to go to on that side that doesn't just shut down. And most of our point guards wont pass over an opposing gaurd so high post isn't really going to get the ball in this scenario.

> I don't think we really do anything quite like this at the moment. Our  
> offense doesn't really have much set structure, so it's possible that  
> there's been times when we've simply gotten randomly crowded on one  
> side, but this would be much more controlled and evenly spaced than  
> that.
> 
> As I've said before, I think we need to push the ball further down  
> towards the bassline on the wing to create more scoring options. If we  
> do this, we *want* our offence to be somewhat "unbalanced" towards the  
> side the ball is on. A wing or low post on the far side is of little  
> use at the moment when the ball is at the low-wing. People can  
> subsequently cut to those areas if the ball swings back up again, but  
> they don't serve any purpose if they're there at that precise point.
>

Having to wait for our people to cut back to swing just gives the oppositions 
defence too much time to readjust. I think our swing should be quicker that.

Idealy if you were low post with a low wing in front of you with the ball a 
swing would beat your cut to wither opposite high post or low post.



> >> From my experience as a off side forward ( unless I am  
> >> misunderstanding what you mean by high post ) there realy is no  
> >> room for me to cut too and I am probably better off doing a V cut  
> >> at best as aswing outlet or something.
> 
> If you cut from the low-post on an arc-path up through the key to the  
> free-throw area, there'll be space for you there. I cut to that area  
> all the time, as do Olly and Kieron quite frequently. It creates a  
> scoring threat which also draws the defense up off the bassline -  
> something which will greatly benifit the low-wing should they decide  
> to drive or pass to the low post.

I wouldn't have alled the free throw area high post so we could be misunderstanding each other. You tend to post up a LOT closer to the basket than I do. I prefer to draw out a forward to create room for either a) a pass to a cutting player b ) space for me to drive around.  You tend to post up closer to the basket as you'll try for a spin hook. This probably accounts for our different perspective on where the space is for cutting. 


> 
> I'm certianly open to suggestions for different ways to go about it,  
> but we absolutely need to move the ball deeper into the low-wing area.  
> We're squandering our low post opportunities and seriously limiting  
> both our passing and scoring options.
>

I don't nessarily disagree with you on this but I'd need moer than a slow text based medium to figure it out. WHat I do think is important is that we should be able to get the ball from that low position to the other side wing without anyone moving much. 
 
Andrew. 

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