From ajbailey11 at yahoo.com  Tue Jun  4 10:25:32 2019
From: ajbailey11 at yahoo.com (Andrew Bailey)
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2019 02:25:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [UCCBball] Game this week
References: <1503962207.3945526.1559615132245.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1503962207.3945526.1559615132245@mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Everyone,?
The game this week is at 1pm. Who can make it. Myself and Seb can but we will have to leave pretty quickly this week.
Also do we know if James can? play/is playing on the 15th?
Regards,Andrew.
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From tom.eitelhuber at gmail.com  Tue Jun  4 12:21:39 2019
From: tom.eitelhuber at gmail.com (Tom Eitelhuber)
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2019 12:21:39 +0800
Subject: [UCCBball] Game this week
In-Reply-To: <1503962207.3945526.1559615132245@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1503962207.3945526.1559615132245.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1503962207.3945526.1559615132245@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAGdAE87tx_PizyU+aMw9r87s_MXcRUMxcWfabx76UkxdhiAzGg@mail.gmail.com>

I'm in.

On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 10:26 AM Andrew Bailey <ajbailey11 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
>
> The game this week is at 1pm. Who can make it. Myself and Seb can but we
> will have to leave pretty quickly this week.
>
> Also do we know if James can  play/is playing on the 15th?
>
> Regards,
> Andrew.
> _______________________________________________
> Basketball mailing list
> Basketball at ucc.asn.au
> https://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball
>
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From trs80 at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au  Tue Jun  4 15:53:31 2019
From: trs80 at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (James Andrewartha)
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2019 15:53:31 +0800 (AWST)
Subject: [UCCBball] Game this week
In-Reply-To: <1503962207.3945526.1559615132245@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1503962207.3945526.1559615132245.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1503962207.3945526.1559615132245@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906041553250.11677@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>

On Tue, 4 Jun 2019, Andrew Bailey wrote:

> The game this week is at 1pm. Who can make it. Myself and Seb can but we will have to leave pretty quickly this week.
> 
> Also do we know if James can? play/is playing on the 15th?

I should be able to.

-- 
# TRS-80              trs80(a)ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au #/ "Otherwise Bub here will do \
# UCC Wheel Member     http://trs80.ucc.asn.au/ #|  what squirrels do best     |
[ "There's nobody getting rich writing          ]|  -- Collect and hide your   |
[  software that I know of" -- Bill Gates, 1980 ]\  nuts." -- Acid Reflux #231 /

From chas at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au  Tue Jun  4 22:26:47 2019
From: chas at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (Chas Stan-Bishop)
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2019 22:26:47 +0800 (AWST)
Subject: [UCCBball] Game this week
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906041553250.11677@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
References: <1503962207.3945526.1559615132245.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1503962207.3945526.1559615132245@mail.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.20.1906041553250.11677@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906042226360.28984@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>


Dave and I should be playing.

Chas

On Tue, 4 Jun 2019, James Andrewartha wrote:

> On Tue, 4 Jun 2019, Andrew Bailey wrote:
>
>> The game this week is at 1pm. Who can make it. Myself and Seb can but we will have to leave pretty quickly this week.
>>
>> Also do we know if James can? play/is playing on the 15th?
>
> I should be able to.
>
> -- 
> # TRS-80              trs80(a)ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au #/ "Otherwise Bub here will do \
> # UCC Wheel Member     http://trs80.ucc.asn.au/ #|  what squirrels do best     |
> [ "There's nobody getting rich writing          ]|  -- Collect and hide your   |
> [  software that I know of" -- Bill Gates, 1980 ]\  nuts." -- Acid Reflux #231 /

From grubbcm at gmail.com  Tue Jun  4 22:52:42 2019
From: grubbcm at gmail.com (Christopher Grubb)
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2019 22:52:42 +0800
Subject: [UCCBball] Game this week
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906042226360.28984@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
References: <1503962207.3945526.1559615132245.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1503962207.3945526.1559615132245@mail.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.20.1906041553250.11677@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
	<alpine.DEB.2.20.1906042226360.28984@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
Message-ID: <CAEss1UYUZJ85MYjEn+Uzw0nk4y+OFE3gQwA7bgnMsrTa=rSTVA@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah,  I'm in too.

On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 10:27 PM Chas Stan-Bishop <chas at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
wrote:

>
> Dave and I should be playing.
>
> Chas
>
> On Tue, 4 Jun 2019, James Andrewartha wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 4 Jun 2019, Andrew Bailey wrote:
> >
> >> The game this week is at 1pm. Who can make it. Myself and Seb can but
> we will have to leave pretty quickly this week.
> >>
> >> Also do we know if James can  play/is playing on the 15th?
> >
> > I should be able to.
> >
> > --
> > # TRS-80              trs80(a)ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au #/ "Otherwise Bub here
> will do \
> > # UCC Wheel Member     http://trs80.ucc.asn.au/ #|  what squirrels do
> best     |
> > [ "There's nobody getting rich writing          ]|  -- Collect and hide
> your   |
> > [  software that I know of" -- Bill Gates, 1980 ]\  nuts." -- Acid
> Reflux #231 /_______________________________________________
> Basketball mailing list
> Basketball at ucc.asn.au
> https://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball
>
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From zarquin at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au  Wed Jun  5 16:08:36 2019
From: zarquin at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (Alwyn Nixon-Lloyd)
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2019 16:08:36 +0800 (AWST)
Subject: [UCCBball] Game this week
In-Reply-To: <CAEss1UYUZJ85MYjEn+Uzw0nk4y+OFE3gQwA7bgnMsrTa=rSTVA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1503962207.3945526.1559615132245.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1503962207.3945526.1559615132245@mail.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.20.1906041553250.11677@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
	<alpine.DEB.2.20.1906042226360.28984@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
	<CAEss1UYUZJ85MYjEn+Uzw0nk4y+OFE3gQwA7bgnMsrTa=rSTVA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906051608170.28675@mussel.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>


I am available for the basketball game.

A

On Tue, 4 Jun 2019, Christopher Grubb wrote:

> Yeah,? I'm in too.
> 
> On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 10:27 PM Chas Stan-Bishop <chas at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
> wrote:
>
>       Dave and I should be playing.
>
>       Chas
>
>       On Tue, 4 Jun 2019, James Andrewartha wrote:
>
>       > On Tue, 4 Jun 2019, Andrew Bailey wrote:
>       >
>       >> The game this week is at 1pm. Who can make it. Myself and Seb
>       can but we will have to leave pretty quickly this week.
>       >>
>       >> Also do we know if James can? play/is playing on the 15th?
>       >
>       > I should be able to.
>       >
>       > --
>       > # TRS-80? ? ? ? ? ? ? trs80(a)ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au #/ "Otherwise
>       Bub here will do \
>       > # UCC Wheel Member? ? ?http://trs80.ucc.asn.au/ #|? what
>       squirrels do best? ? ?|
>       > [ "There's nobody getting rich writing? ? ? ? ? ]|? -- Collect
>       and hide your? ?|
>       > [? software that I know of" -- Bill Gates, 1980 ]\? nuts." --
>       Acid Reflux #231
>       /_______________________________________________
>       Basketball mailing list
>       Basketball at ucc.asn.au
>       https://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball
> 
> 
>
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Basketball mailing list
Basketball at ucc.asn.au
https://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball

From chas at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au  Thu Jun  6 01:26:57 2019
From: chas at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (Chas Stan-Bishop)
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 01:26:57 +0800 (AWST)
Subject: [UCCBball] Some video analysis
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906042229170.28984@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>

Hey all,

So, following up on the discussion I had with Alwyn after our last game, 
some video analysis. It's from the game before last (since I don't have 
the last game video yet), and I've only gone over the first video/~half 
in detail, so it's not perfect. Hopefully better than nothing though.

There were a total of 28 play in the clip. We fully reversed the ball 3 
times, which is not great. But, as I suspected, on only _one_ of the 25 
occasions where we didn't was it because a pass wasn't available. Even in 
that instance, it was the weak wing that was unavailable, not either slot, 
and it was because the cut to the weak side was slow (Tommo was posting 
rather than cutting), and the second pass was too hasty (player was
completely unguarded, and never looked like driving/shooting).

We mostly aren't swinging too slowly. We're just choosing not to swing at 
all. We frequently just repeatedly bang our heads against the strong side 
defence.

Some examples:
1 - The aforementioned play
 	http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:21:07&end=00:21:20

This is a good example of a couple of things. Note Tommo's defender. 
That's a guard following Tommo all the way down to the low block leaving 
a single defender guarding everything above the blue line, and 4 defenders 
in a line just above the restricted area. Tommo possibly thinks he's 
posting up a centre, since the forward went out to the corner (giving us 
an advantage), but he isn't. When the ball reverses to the slot (Seb), 
he's _totally_ unguarded.

Look at the weak side defence; it basically hasn't shifted. It has no 
cause to. Seb's obvious play would be to shoot, but they're not worried 
about that because a) Seb never even thinks about shooting, so no threat 
there and b) they might let us have that shot anyway, if they've got time 
to carefully consider.

We could drive that, but we're unlikely to get anything at the basket with 
three defenders still inside. Most of us will likely end up taking a 
midrange pull-up.
I would argue that our two best options might well be;

1) Do nothing. Seriously. The defence isn't playing us, so there's no 
reason to do anything until they start to shift. Continuing the reverse to 
Alwyn gets us nowhere, since there's no-one on the weak wing and the weak 
slot is still guarded. Until something changes, it costs us nothing to 
hold the ball indefinitely and look like we're considering shooting. 
They'll move eventually, just because it feels wrong not to.

2) Drive, with every intention of kicking the ball straight back out 
again if the defence covers the drive/inside options at all. We can just 
run a strong side drive and kick repeatedly, gradually shifting the 
defence over, with the proviso that we _reverse the ball once the defence 
has shifted_. We usually miss that bit. For an example of this nearly 
working out, see
http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:17:45&end=00:18:06

We make a few questionable decisions here, resulting in repeated strong 
side play/missing reversal (a whole other discussion), which causes Alwyn 
to eventually get bored and cut from the weak slot when he's not supposed 
to, screwing our spacing a bit.

But look at what happens to the defence each time the ball gets passed on 
the strong side. They gradually shift further and further across, 
especially when Andrew takes a step in that direction. By the time Alwyn 
bails, only the weak forward is paying any attention to Alwyn and Chris on 
the weak side, and no-one is really in position to play solid defence. 
This burns them when Tommo eventually skips it to Chris and Alwyn reverses 
course for the backdoor play.

This is better than the situation when the ball first goes back to the 
Chris at the strong slot. The weak side guard has shifted across a bit, 
but still has his eye on Tommo at the weak slot. Multiple people are still 
watching the baseline cut.

My point is, that we don't need to _always_ swing the ball as soon as we 
touch it, in an effort to beat the defence to the weak side. They often 
don't initially move much, and the more time we spend on the strong side 
(as long as we look vaguely threatening), the more time we give the 
defence to decide to shift across and begin to over-focus on our 
strong-side action.

The important thing is that when we _do_ swing the ball, everyone who 
touches it looks threatening (to make the out of position defenders feel 
like they have to play you, rather than ignoring you and returning to 
their optimal zone assignments), and all our weak side players are in 
position to take advantage. It's not speed that matters, it's timing and 
threat/misdirection.


Returning to the original clip, if Seb fakes a shot, not only does it 
potentially attract the weak guard, resulting in an Alwyn drive rather 
than the mostly pointless high post entry, but it also gives Tommo time to 
cut through to the weak corner, which would almost certainly draw the 
weak forward out i.e. exactly what we're after.


For an example of what I was talking about regarding timing of the 
slot-to-slot cut, see this
http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:03:43&end=00:03:57

When Seb passes to me on the wing, the strong guard's attention is 
initially on us. He follows the cut a bit, then switches focus to the ball 
on the wing. He's a little out of position. The weak side guard drifts 
across and down to cover the post. But look what happens when Dave cuts 
across slightly early (I contend). Dave isn't getting the ball right away 
- I need to wait for Seb to get to the short corner - but the strong guard 
sees Dave cut out of the corner of his eye, and shifts back to make sure 
he can get there if the ball reverses. The weak guard recognises this, and 
hands off responsibility before Dave even catches the ball, leaving him 
time to recover to Tommo. The reversal gets up something, but not as much 
as it could.

If Dave holds off his cut for a couple of seconds, the strong guards 
attention would zero in on me. I would pass to the spot as Dave was on the 
move, and when he catches the ball, it would not be 100% clear who's 
resposibility it is; the defence wouldn't have had time to think about it. 
Dave can freeze dribble at the gap, freezing the weak guard, giving Tommo 
a clearer path on his cut. Now it's not clear if the guard can cover 
Tommo's cut, so the forward has to split attention between him and Seb. 
Which tilts the mistake lottery heavily in our favour, and probably makes 
the pass to Tommo much easier.

This shows the second half of what I mean
http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:04:19&end=00:04:25

Tommo reverses slightly early from the wing*, but it does mean that Dave 
catches on the move despite the early timing of his cut. The strong guard 
has no time to adjust/recover, so the weak guard picks him up Dave. This 
results in the weak forward picking up Seb on the swing (questionable, 
unless he thinks Seb is lights out from 3, so I wouldn't count on that), 
and we might have created some great baseline action if Seb's pass hadn't 
been deflected.


*Note: I say early because there's no time to investigate the two man game 
between wing and short corner. I'm okay with that on the first wing pass, 
since it's mostly to draw the defence across anyway, but we probably want 
to be more deliberate on the weak wing if we can get it there.


Anyway, here are some more clips of us not reversing, despite having the 
option. I'll start with probably our worst decision of the game (me 
shooting rather than a driving and dishing for a likely uncontested 
layup), just so this email feels less like me beating up other people. :P
http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:05:38&end=00:05:48

And some more:
http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:14:14&end=00:14:29
http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:06:21&end=00:06:34
http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:11:09&end=00:11:20
http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:15:44&end=00:15:58
http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:18:59&end=00:19:07

That'll probably do. There are more (I can list them if people want). 
14-15 of our 28 plays involved us not reversing the ball when we have the 
option (not saying we should have reversed on all of them - there were 
some great options in there), 6-7 involved the ball entering into the high 
post early and never leaving (shot/foul/tie-up), and the remaining 6-8 
were either reversals, our single missing reversal option, or a bit weird 
(broken plays, early turnovers etc).



So. For our next game, I think we simply focus on completing the reversal 
unless we can get all the way to the bucket, or they just completely 
refuse to defend us.

I think we think of our initial wing pass as a setup pass. Wait for the 
play to fully develop and the defence to shift, and only shoot or 
agressivley seek to make a play under the above conditions (layup/lack of 
defence).
Then fully reverse the ball, with the same provisos. I also want to try 
leaving the high post weak side, ready to screen the weak guard to stop 
him helping on the weak side, but we can talk about that at the game.
Then I want to actually play a bit on wing. Seriously think about a 3, 
especially if you are Tommo or Alwyn. Wait for the cut to reach the 
short corner and see if you can safely get it there. Look at the two man 
game between short corner and wing - screens and kickouts. Look at the 
high post _now_, rather than before we've even hit one wing. Play for a 
bit. _Then_ swing it and try again on the other side.

TLDR; We need to reverse the ball more often, but with less haste/panic.

Probably enough wall of text. Hope it made some degree of sense - I 
haven't been sleeping great, so it might all be nonsense :P. Feel free to 
disagree/let me know your thoughts.

Chas

From tom.eitelhuber at gmail.com  Fri Jun  7 12:21:44 2019
From: tom.eitelhuber at gmail.com (Tom Eitelhuber)
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2019 12:21:44 +0800
Subject: [UCCBball] Some video analysis
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906042229170.28984@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906042229170.28984@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
Message-ID: <CAGdAE86F8ByFvnt-OvAKkLGLDQG2ZhS5nMyCpHxpksS3cVkRmw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone,

Chas is definitely right that we need to have less haste and more "looking
like you might do something" before swinging the ball. This is something
I'll be focusing on, as should we all.

I've also been talking to Chas about this separately, with some additional
thoughts. We could probably go on discussing it for some time, but the game
is tomorrow so I thought I'd share some ideas. I'd like to incorporate one
or two routine screens into the offensive rotation, to get everyone a bit
more used to setting screens as a regular thing. I'd like to make it as
simple as possible, so that even if it's not tactically optimal, it is at
least more likely to happen.

The two logical opportunities that fit into our standard rotation are:
1. When the point passes to the wing, they screen the wing and roll
baseline (on either side, but less important on the first swing)
2. The high post stays on the weak side on the first swing, then on the
reversal screens for the weak side point when they make their cut/drive

For #1, it's preferable that the point cuts down on the usual angle and
then cuts out to set the screen, rather than running directly at the wing
after they pass, but honestly the latter isn't too bad, as long as we're
not doing it constantly. There's also the option of doing a wide dribble
hand-off, if you feel like changing it up. However you run it, the point
ultimately ends up down low, where they normally would, and the rotation
can continue.

The wing needs to be aware of how people are moving to make the best play:
- Pass to the rolling screener (if they don't cover)
- Pass into the high post (if they collapse down)
- Drive/shoot (if there's space or a decent lane coming off the screen)
- Swing AFTER looking at the options (if they hedge effectively enough that
there's no good option)

To be clear, I don't want these to be optional steps, I'd like them to be
the default (unless there's a really good alternative option) so that we
actually do them. Most of our "best endeavour" approaches to screening have
resulted in very few actual screens, so I'd like to be a bit more proactive
about it. Hope that all makes sense to everyone. I'd quite like to try this
on Saturday, at least for a handful of plays. If anyone has any questions
let me know.

Chas, if you think I've terribly misinterpreted any of your ideas, or have
anything to add, please jump in!

Cheers,
Tom

On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 1:27 AM Chas Stan-Bishop <chas at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
wrote:

> Hey all,
>
> So, following up on the discussion I had with Alwyn after our last game,
> some video analysis. It's from the game before last (since I don't have
> the last game video yet), and I've only gone over the first video/~half
> in detail, so it's not perfect. Hopefully better than nothing though.
>
> There were a total of 28 play in the clip. We fully reversed the ball 3
> times, which is not great. But, as I suspected, on only _one_ of the 25
> occasions where we didn't was it because a pass wasn't available. Even in
> that instance, it was the weak wing that was unavailable, not either slot,
> and it was because the cut to the weak side was slow (Tommo was posting
> rather than cutting), and the second pass was too hasty (player was
> completely unguarded, and never looked like driving/shooting).
>
> We mostly aren't swinging too slowly. We're just choosing not to swing at
> all. We frequently just repeatedly bang our heads against the strong side
> defence.
>
> Some examples:
> 1 - The aforementioned play
>
> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:21:07&end=00:21:20
>
> This is a good example of a couple of things. Note Tommo's defender.
> That's a guard following Tommo all the way down to the low block leaving
> a single defender guarding everything above the blue line, and 4 defenders
> in a line just above the restricted area. Tommo possibly thinks he's
> posting up a centre, since the forward went out to the corner (giving us
> an advantage), but he isn't. When the ball reverses to the slot (Seb),
> he's _totally_ unguarded.
>
> Look at the weak side defence; it basically hasn't shifted. It has no
> cause to. Seb's obvious play would be to shoot, but they're not worried
> about that because a) Seb never even thinks about shooting, so no threat
> there and b) they might let us have that shot anyway, if they've got time
> to carefully consider.
>
> We could drive that, but we're unlikely to get anything at the basket with
> three defenders still inside. Most of us will likely end up taking a
> midrange pull-up.
> I would argue that our two best options might well be;
>
> 1) Do nothing. Seriously. The defence isn't playing us, so there's no
> reason to do anything until they start to shift. Continuing the reverse to
> Alwyn gets us nowhere, since there's no-one on the weak wing and the weak
> slot is still guarded. Until something changes, it costs us nothing to
> hold the ball indefinitely and look like we're considering shooting.
> They'll move eventually, just because it feels wrong not to.
>
> 2) Drive, with every intention of kicking the ball straight back out
> again if the defence covers the drive/inside options at all. We can just
> run a strong side drive and kick repeatedly, gradually shifting the
> defence over, with the proviso that we _reverse the ball once the defence
> has shifted_. We usually miss that bit. For an example of this nearly
> working out, see
>
> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:17:45&end=00:18:06
>
> We make a few questionable decisions here, resulting in repeated strong
> side play/missing reversal (a whole other discussion), which causes Alwyn
> to eventually get bored and cut from the weak slot when he's not supposed
> to, screwing our spacing a bit.
>
> But look at what happens to the defence each time the ball gets passed on
> the strong side. They gradually shift further and further across,
> especially when Andrew takes a step in that direction. By the time Alwyn
> bails, only the weak forward is paying any attention to Alwyn and Chris on
> the weak side, and no-one is really in position to play solid defence.
> This burns them when Tommo eventually skips it to Chris and Alwyn reverses
> course for the backdoor play.
>
> This is better than the situation when the ball first goes back to the
> Chris at the strong slot. The weak side guard has shifted across a bit,
> but still has his eye on Tommo at the weak slot. Multiple people are still
> watching the baseline cut.
>
> My point is, that we don't need to _always_ swing the ball as soon as we
> touch it, in an effort to beat the defence to the weak side. They often
> don't initially move much, and the more time we spend on the strong side
> (as long as we look vaguely threatening), the more time we give the
> defence to decide to shift across and begin to over-focus on our
> strong-side action.
>
> The important thing is that when we _do_ swing the ball, everyone who
> touches it looks threatening (to make the out of position defenders feel
> like they have to play you, rather than ignoring you and returning to
> their optimal zone assignments), and all our weak side players are in
> position to take advantage. It's not speed that matters, it's timing and
> threat/misdirection.
>
>
> Returning to the original clip, if Seb fakes a shot, not only does it
> potentially attract the weak guard, resulting in an Alwyn drive rather
> than the mostly pointless high post entry, but it also gives Tommo time to
> cut through to the weak corner, which would almost certainly draw the
> weak forward out i.e. exactly what we're after.
>
>
> For an example of what I was talking about regarding timing of the
> slot-to-slot cut, see this
>
> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:03:43&end=00:03:57
>
> When Seb passes to me on the wing, the strong guard's attention is
> initially on us. He follows the cut a bit, then switches focus to the ball
> on the wing. He's a little out of position. The weak side guard drifts
> across and down to cover the post. But look what happens when Dave cuts
> across slightly early (I contend). Dave isn't getting the ball right away
> - I need to wait for Seb to get to the short corner - but the strong guard
> sees Dave cut out of the corner of his eye, and shifts back to make sure
> he can get there if the ball reverses. The weak guard recognises this, and
> hands off responsibility before Dave even catches the ball, leaving him
> time to recover to Tommo. The reversal gets up something, but not as much
> as it could.
>
> If Dave holds off his cut for a couple of seconds, the strong guards
> attention would zero in on me. I would pass to the spot as Dave was on the
> move, and when he catches the ball, it would not be 100% clear who's
> resposibility it is; the defence wouldn't have had time to think about it.
> Dave can freeze dribble at the gap, freezing the weak guard, giving Tommo
> a clearer path on his cut. Now it's not clear if the guard can cover
> Tommo's cut, so the forward has to split attention between him and Seb.
> Which tilts the mistake lottery heavily in our favour, and probably makes
> the pass to Tommo much easier.
>
> This shows the second half of what I mean
>
> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:04:19&end=00:04:25
>
> Tommo reverses slightly early from the wing*, but it does mean that Dave
> catches on the move despite the early timing of his cut. The strong guard
> has no time to adjust/recover, so the weak guard picks him up Dave. This
> results in the weak forward picking up Seb on the swing (questionable,
> unless he thinks Seb is lights out from 3, so I wouldn't count on that),
> and we might have created some great baseline action if Seb's pass hadn't
> been deflected.
>
>
> *Note: I say early because there's no time to investigate the two man game
> between wing and short corner. I'm okay with that on the first wing pass,
> since it's mostly to draw the defence across anyway, but we probably want
> to be more deliberate on the weak wing if we can get it there.
>
>
> Anyway, here are some more clips of us not reversing, despite having the
> option. I'll start with probably our worst decision of the game (me
> shooting rather than a driving and dishing for a likely uncontested
> layup), just so this email feels less like me beating up other people. :P
>
> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:05:38&end=00:05:48
>
> And some more:
>
> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:14:14&end=00:14:29
>
> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:06:21&end=00:06:34
>
> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:11:09&end=00:11:20
>
> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:15:44&end=00:15:58
>
> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:18:59&end=00:19:07
>
> That'll probably do. There are more (I can list them if people want).
> 14-15 of our 28 plays involved us not reversing the ball when we have the
> option (not saying we should have reversed on all of them - there were
> some great options in there), 6-7 involved the ball entering into the high
> post early and never leaving (shot/foul/tie-up), and the remaining 6-8
> were either reversals, our single missing reversal option, or a bit weird
> (broken plays, early turnovers etc).
>
>
>
> So. For our next game, I think we simply focus on completing the reversal
> unless we can get all the way to the bucket, or they just completely
> refuse to defend us.
>
> I think we think of our initial wing pass as a setup pass. Wait for the
> play to fully develop and the defence to shift, and only shoot or
> agressivley seek to make a play under the above conditions (layup/lack of
> defence).
> Then fully reverse the ball, with the same provisos. I also want to try
> leaving the high post weak side, ready to screen the weak guard to stop
> him helping on the weak side, but we can talk about that at the game.
> Then I want to actually play a bit on wing. Seriously think about a 3,
> especially if you are Tommo or Alwyn. Wait for the cut to reach the
> short corner and see if you can safely get it there. Look at the two man
> game between short corner and wing - screens and kickouts. Look at the
> high post _now_, rather than before we've even hit one wing. Play for a
> bit. _Then_ swing it and try again on the other side.
>
> TLDR; We need to reverse the ball more often, but with less haste/panic.
>
> Probably enough wall of text. Hope it made some degree of sense - I
> haven't been sleeping great, so it might all be nonsense :P. Feel free to
> disagree/let me know your thoughts.
>
> Chas
> _______________________________________________
> Basketball mailing list
> Basketball at ucc.asn.au
> https://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball
>
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From zarquin at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au  Fri Jun  7 15:09:25 2019
From: zarquin at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (Alwyn Nixon-Lloyd)
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2019 15:09:25 +0800 (AWST)
Subject: [UCCBball] Game this week
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906051608170.28675@mussel.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
References: <1503962207.3945526.1559615132245.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1503962207.3945526.1559615132245@mail.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.20.1906041553250.11677@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
	<alpine.DEB.2.20.1906042226360.28984@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
	<CAEss1UYUZJ85MYjEn+Uzw0nk4y+OFE3gQwA7bgnMsrTa=rSTVA@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.20.1906051608170.28675@mussel.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906071505140.28675@mussel.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>


I've been sick last night and today.  I'm feeling better at the moment, 
but just a heads up I'm not going to be 100%.

A

On Wed, 5 Jun 2019, Alwyn Nixon-Lloyd wrote:

>
> I am available for the basketball game.
>
> A
>
> On Tue, 4 Jun 2019, Christopher Grubb wrote:
>
>> Yeah,? I'm in too.
>> 
>> On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 10:27 PM Chas Stan-Bishop <chas at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
>> wrote:
>>
>>       Dave and I should be playing.
>>
>>       Chas
>>
>>       On Tue, 4 Jun 2019, James Andrewartha wrote:
>>
>>       > On Tue, 4 Jun 2019, Andrew Bailey wrote:
>>       >
>>       >> The game this week is at 1pm. Who can make it. Myself and Seb
>>       can but we will have to leave pretty quickly this week.
>>       >>
>>       >> Also do we know if James can? play/is playing on the 15th?
>>       >
>>       > I should be able to.
>>       >
>>       > --
>>       > # TRS-80? ? ? ? ? ? ? trs80(a)ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au #/ "Otherwise
>>       Bub here will do \
>>       > # UCC Wheel Member? ? ?http://trs80.ucc.asn.au/ #|? what
>>       squirrels do best? ? ?|
>>       > [ "There's nobody getting rich writing? ? ? ? ? ]|? -- Collect
>>       and hide your? ?|
>>       > [? software that I know of" -- Bill Gates, 1980 ]\? nuts." --
>>       Acid Reflux #231
>>       /_______________________________________________
>>       Basketball mailing list
>>       Basketball at ucc.asn.au
>>       https://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball
>> 
>> 
>
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From chas at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au  Fri Jun  7 20:52:42 2019
From: chas at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (Chas Stan-Bishop)
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2019 20:52:42 +0800 (AWST)
Subject: [UCCBball] Some video analysis
In-Reply-To: <CAGdAE86F8ByFvnt-OvAKkLGLDQG2ZhS5nMyCpHxpksS3cVkRmw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906042229170.28984@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
	<CAGdAE86F8ByFvnt-OvAKkLGLDQG2ZhS5nMyCpHxpksS3cVkRmw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906071821480.29467@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>



> 1. When the point passes to the wing, they screen the wing and roll baseline (on either side, but less important on the first swing)
<snip>
> For #1, it's preferable that the point cuts down on the usual angle and then cuts out to set the screen, rather than running directly at the wing after they pass,
> but honestly the latter isn't too bad, as long as we're not doing it constantly. There's also the option of doing a wide dribble hand-off, if you feel like
> changing it up. However you run it, the point ultimately ends up down low, where they normally would, and the rotation can continue.


I'd add two things here. First, I'd say it's _much_ less important on the 
first swing. The main focus on the first swing should be forcing the 
defence to shift across by running something that looks threatening, and 
exploiting obivous defensive lapses (e.g. they completely fail to defend 
the cut). Rather than trying to _create_ anything. So I'd say set a screen 
if it looks like it'll lead to a layup, or if you need to in order to 
threaten the defence.
On any reverse though, there should definitely be a screen every time the 
cutter isn't a passing option.

Second, I wouldn't say that the screener should _always_ roll baseline, or 
will always end up down low and continuing to the weak side. It will 
depend on where the wing is, and where the defence is. Sometimes the 
screen will need to be set for a baseline drive, and the roll will be to 
the mid-post area. And sometimes (maybe even often, when the drive is 
baseline), the screener should probably pop instead, with the ball-handler 
moving to the weak side instead. We already have a high post in there, and 
a weak side cutter, so having a strong kick option will frequently be more 
valuable than one more body inside clogging the paint. We'll just have to 
play it by ear and learn by screwing up. :P
The roll should definitely be the first look though, so we have a chance 
at any open lanes they leave us. We can always scramble if our spacing 
gets a bit screwed and we lose our kick.


> 2. The high post stays on the weak side on the first swing, then on the reversal screens for the weak side point when they make their cut/drive

Definitely this. Also, just to help out our post a bit, I think we should 
maybe try slightly harder to beat a soft denial on the wing than we 
usually do. We still don't want to force any risky passes, but we should 
be trying to use tools like v-cuts and screens from the wing/dribble handoffs 
to get the ball to the wing. Although that second one involves us not 
picking up our dribble early, which might be a problem. :P

But yes, I think every reversal should default to including at least those 
two screens, unless it's clearly a bad idea.

Chas

On Fri, 7 Jun 2019, Tom Eitelhuber wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> Chas is definitely right that we need to have less haste and more "looking like you might do something" before swinging the ball. This is something I'll be
> focusing on, as should we all.
> 
> I've also been talking to Chas about this separately, with some additional thoughts. We could probably go on discussing it for some time, but the game is tomorrow
> so I thought I'd share some ideas. I'd like to incorporate one or two routine screens into the offensive rotation, to get everyone a bit more used to setting
> screens as a regular thing. I'd like to make it as simple as possible, so that even if it's not tactically optimal, it is at least more likely to happen.
> 
> The two logical opportunities that fit into our standard rotation are:
> 1. When the point passes to the wing, they screen the wing and roll baseline (on either side, but less important on the first swing)
> 2. The high post stays on the weak side on the first swing, then on the reversal screens for the weak side point when they make their cut/drive
> 
> For #1, it's preferable that the point cuts down on the usual angle and then cuts out to set the screen, rather than running directly at the wing after they pass,
> but honestly the latter isn't too bad, as long as we're not doing it constantly. There's also the option of doing a wide dribble hand-off, if you feel like
> changing it up. However you run it, the point ultimately ends up down low, where they normally would, and the rotation can continue.
> 
> The wing needs to be aware of how people are moving to make the best play:
> - Pass to the rolling screener (if they don't cover)
> - Pass into the high post (if they collapse down)
> - Drive/shoot (if there's space or a decent lane coming off the screen)
> - Swing AFTER looking at the options (if they hedge effectively enough that there's no good option)
> 
> To be clear, I don't want these to be optional steps, I'd like them to be the default (unless there's a really good alternative option) so that we actually do
> them. Most of our "best endeavour" approaches to screening have resulted in very few actual screens, so I'd like to be a bit more proactive about it. Hope that all
> makes sense to everyone. I'd quite like to try this on Saturday, at least for a handful of plays. If anyone has any questions let me know.
> 
> Chas, if you think I've terribly misinterpreted any of your ideas, or have anything to add, please jump in!
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom
> 
> On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 1:27 AM Chas Stan-Bishop <chas at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> wrote:
>       Hey all,
>
>       So, following up on the discussion I had with Alwyn after our last game,
>       some video analysis. It's from the game before last (since I don't have
>       the last game video yet), and I've only gone over the first video/~half
>       in detail, so it's not perfect. Hopefully better than nothing though.
>
>       There were a total of 28 play in the clip. We fully reversed the ball 3
>       times, which is not great. But, as I suspected, on only _one_ of the 25
>       occasions where we didn't was it because a pass wasn't available. Even in
>       that instance, it was the weak wing that was unavailable, not either slot,
>       and it was because the cut to the weak side was slow (Tommo was posting
>       rather than cutting), and the second pass was too hasty (player was
>       completely unguarded, and never looked like driving/shooting).
>
>       We mostly aren't swinging too slowly. We're just choosing not to swing at
>       all. We frequently just repeatedly bang our heads against the strong side
>       defence.
>
>       Some examples:
>       1 - The aforementioned play
>       ? ? ? ? http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:21:07&end=00:21:20
>
>       This is a good example of a couple of things. Note Tommo's defender.
>       That's a guard following Tommo all the way down to the low block leaving
>       a single defender guarding everything above the blue line, and 4 defenders
>       in a line just above the restricted area. Tommo possibly thinks he's
>       posting up a centre, since the forward went out to the corner (giving us
>       an advantage), but he isn't. When the ball reverses to the slot (Seb),
>       he's _totally_ unguarded.
>
>       Look at the weak side defence; it basically hasn't shifted. It has no
>       cause to. Seb's obvious play would be to shoot, but they're not worried
>       about that because a) Seb never even thinks about shooting, so no threat
>       there and b) they might let us have that shot anyway, if they've got time
>       to carefully consider.
>
>       We could drive that, but we're unlikely to get anything at the basket with
>       three defenders still inside. Most of us will likely end up taking a
>       midrange pull-up.
>       I would argue that our two best options might well be;
>
>       1) Do nothing. Seriously. The defence isn't playing us, so there's no
>       reason to do anything until they start to shift. Continuing the reverse to
>       Alwyn gets us nowhere, since there's no-one on the weak wing and the weak
>       slot is still guarded. Until something changes, it costs us nothing to
>       hold the ball indefinitely and look like we're considering shooting.
>       They'll move eventually, just because it feels wrong not to.
>
>       2) Drive, with every intention of kicking the ball straight back out
>       again if the defence covers the drive/inside options at all. We can just
>       run a strong side drive and kick repeatedly, gradually shifting the
>       defence over, with the proviso that we _reverse the ball once the defence
>       has shifted_. We usually miss that bit. For an example of this nearly
>       working out, see
>       http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:17:45&end=00:18:06
>
>       We make a few questionable decisions here, resulting in repeated strong
>       side play/missing reversal (a whole other discussion), which causes Alwyn
>       to eventually get bored and cut from the weak slot when he's not supposed
>       to, screwing our spacing a bit.
>
>       But look at what happens to the defence each time the ball gets passed on
>       the strong side. They gradually shift further and further across,
>       especially when Andrew takes a step in that direction. By the time Alwyn
>       bails, only the weak forward is paying any attention to Alwyn and Chris on
>       the weak side, and no-one is really in position to play solid defence.
>       This burns them when Tommo eventually skips it to Chris and Alwyn reverses
>       course for the backdoor play.
>
>       This is better than the situation when the ball first goes back to the
>       Chris at the strong slot. The weak side guard has shifted across a bit,
>       but still has his eye on Tommo at the weak slot. Multiple people are still
>       watching the baseline cut.
>
>       My point is, that we don't need to _always_ swing the ball as soon as we
>       touch it, in an effort to beat the defence to the weak side. They often
>       don't initially move much, and the more time we spend on the strong side
>       (as long as we look vaguely threatening), the more time we give the
>       defence to decide to shift across and begin to over-focus on our
>       strong-side action.
>
>       The important thing is that when we _do_ swing the ball, everyone who
>       touches it looks threatening (to make the out of position defenders feel
>       like they have to play you, rather than ignoring you and returning to
>       their optimal zone assignments), and all our weak side players are in
>       position to take advantage. It's not speed that matters, it's timing and
>       threat/misdirection.
> 
>
>       Returning to the original clip, if Seb fakes a shot, not only does it
>       potentially attract the weak guard, resulting in an Alwyn drive rather
>       than the mostly pointless high post entry, but it also gives Tommo time to
>       cut through to the weak corner, which would almost certainly draw the
>       weak forward out i.e. exactly what we're after.
> 
>
>       For an example of what I was talking about regarding timing of the
>       slot-to-slot cut, see this
>       http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:03:43&end=00:03:57
>
>       When Seb passes to me on the wing, the strong guard's attention is
>       initially on us. He follows the cut a bit, then switches focus to the ball
>       on the wing. He's a little out of position. The weak side guard drifts
>       across and down to cover the post. But look what happens when Dave cuts
>       across slightly early (I contend). Dave isn't getting the ball right away
>       - I need to wait for Seb to get to the short corner - but the strong guard
>       sees Dave cut out of the corner of his eye, and shifts back to make sure
>       he can get there if the ball reverses. The weak guard recognises this, and
>       hands off responsibility before Dave even catches the ball, leaving him
>       time to recover to Tommo. The reversal gets up something, but not as much
>       as it could.
>
>       If Dave holds off his cut for a couple of seconds, the strong guards
>       attention would zero in on me. I would pass to the spot as Dave was on the
>       move, and when he catches the ball, it would not be 100% clear who's
>       resposibility it is; the defence wouldn't have had time to think about it.
>       Dave can freeze dribble at the gap, freezing the weak guard, giving Tommo
>       a clearer path on his cut. Now it's not clear if the guard can cover
>       Tommo's cut, so the forward has to split attention between him and Seb.
>       Which tilts the mistake lottery heavily in our favour, and probably makes
>       the pass to Tommo much easier.
>
>       This shows the second half of what I mean
>       http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:04:19&end=00:04:25
>
>       Tommo reverses slightly early from the wing*, but it does mean that Dave
>       catches on the move despite the early timing of his cut. The strong guard
>       has no time to adjust/recover, so the weak guard picks him up Dave. This
>       results in the weak forward picking up Seb on the swing (questionable,
>       unless he thinks Seb is lights out from 3, so I wouldn't count on that),
>       and we might have created some great baseline action if Seb's pass hadn't
>       been deflected.
> 
>
>       *Note: I say early because there's no time to investigate the two man game
>       between wing and short corner. I'm okay with that on the first wing pass,
>       since it's mostly to draw the defence across anyway, but we probably want
>       to be more deliberate on the weak wing if we can get it there.
> 
>
>       Anyway, here are some more clips of us not reversing, despite having the
>       option. I'll start with probably our worst decision of the game (me
>       shooting rather than a driving and dishing for a likely uncontested
>       layup), just so this email feels less like me beating up other people. :P
>       http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:05:38&end=00:05:48
>
>       And some more:
>       http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:14:14&end=00:14:29
>       http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:06:21&end=00:06:34
>       http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:11:09&end=00:11:20
>       http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:15:44&end=00:15:58
>       http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:18:59&end=00:19:07
>
>       That'll probably do. There are more (I can list them if people want).
>       14-15 of our 28 plays involved us not reversing the ball when we have the
>       option (not saying we should have reversed on all of them - there were
>       some great options in there), 6-7 involved the ball entering into the high
>       post early and never leaving (shot/foul/tie-up), and the remaining 6-8
>       were either reversals, our single missing reversal option, or a bit weird
>       (broken plays, early turnovers etc).
> 
> 
>
>       So. For our next game, I think we simply focus on completing the reversal
>       unless we can get all the way to the bucket, or they just completely
>       refuse to defend us.
>
>       I think we think of our initial wing pass as a setup pass. Wait for the
>       play to fully develop and the defence to shift, and only shoot or
>       agressivley seek to make a play under the above conditions (layup/lack of
>       defence).
>       Then fully reverse the ball, with the same provisos. I also want to try
>       leaving the high post weak side, ready to screen the weak guard to stop
>       him helping on the weak side, but we can talk about that at the game.
>       Then I want to actually play a bit on wing. Seriously think about a 3,
>       especially if you are Tommo or Alwyn. Wait for the cut to reach the
>       short corner and see if you can safely get it there. Look at the two man
>       game between short corner and wing - screens and kickouts. Look at the
>       high post _now_, rather than before we've even hit one wing. Play for a
>       bit. _Then_ swing it and try again on the other side.
>
>       TLDR; We need to reverse the ball more often, but with less haste/panic.
>
>       Probably enough wall of text. Hope it made some degree of sense - I
>       haven't been sleeping great, so it might all be nonsense :P. Feel free to
>       disagree/let me know your thoughts.
>
>       Chas
>       _______________________________________________
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From tom.eitelhuber at gmail.com  Fri Jun  7 21:31:13 2019
From: tom.eitelhuber at gmail.com (Tom Eitelhuber)
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2019 21:31:13 +0800
Subject: [UCCBball] Some video analysis
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906071821480.29467@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906042229170.28984@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
	<CAGdAE86F8ByFvnt-OvAKkLGLDQG2ZhS5nMyCpHxpksS3cVkRmw@mail.gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <CAGdAE85oyKoFzH3QRxPxWEO293J38Xd81b0a56ZWY_Dk3ssr6A@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Chas, all valid suggestions. The main reason I said the screener
should always roll baseline is that it might be easier for people to just
have one approach, that fits into the current rotation without any
modifications. That said, I'm more than happy for people to change up the
screen depending on the situation, as long as they're screening I'm happy!
Similar thinking applies to the "not important to screen on the first
swing" part - you're correct, but I'm just trying to have fewer variations
so it's easy to remember..

On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 8:53 PM Chas Stan-Bishop <chas at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
wrote:

>
>
> > 1. When the point passes to the wing, they screen the wing and roll
> baseline (on either side, but less important on the first swing)
> <snip>
> > For #1, it's preferable that the point cuts down on the usual angle and
> then cuts out to set the screen, rather than running directly at the wing
> after they pass,
> > but honestly the latter isn't too bad, as long as we're not doing it
> constantly. There's also the option of doing a wide dribble hand-off, if
> you feel like
> > changing it up. However you run it, the point ultimately ends up down
> low, where they normally would, and the rotation can continue.
>
>
> I'd add two things here. First, I'd say it's _much_ less important on the
> first swing. The main focus on the first swing should be forcing the
> defence to shift across by running something that looks threatening, and
> exploiting obivous defensive lapses (e.g. they completely fail to defend
> the cut). Rather than trying to _create_ anything. So I'd say set a screen
> if it looks like it'll lead to a layup, or if you need to in order to
> threaten the defence.
> On any reverse though, there should definitely be a screen every time the
> cutter isn't a passing option.
>
> Second, I wouldn't say that the screener should _always_ roll baseline, or
> will always end up down low and continuing to the weak side. It will
> depend on where the wing is, and where the defence is. Sometimes the
> screen will need to be set for a baseline drive, and the roll will be to
> the mid-post area. And sometimes (maybe even often, when the drive is
> baseline), the screener should probably pop instead, with the ball-handler
> moving to the weak side instead. We already have a high post in there, and
> a weak side cutter, so having a strong kick option will frequently be more
> valuable than one more body inside clogging the paint. We'll just have to
> play it by ear and learn by screwing up. :P
> The roll should definitely be the first look though, so we have a chance
> at any open lanes they leave us. We can always scramble if our spacing
> gets a bit screwed and we lose our kick.
>
>
> > 2. The high post stays on the weak side on the first swing, then on the
> reversal screens for the weak side point when they make their cut/drive
>
> Definitely this. Also, just to help out our post a bit, I think we should
> maybe try slightly harder to beat a soft denial on the wing than we
> usually do. We still don't want to force any risky passes, but we should
> be trying to use tools like v-cuts and screens from the wing/dribble
> handoffs
> to get the ball to the wing. Although that second one involves us not
> picking up our dribble early, which might be a problem. :P
>
> But yes, I think every reversal should default to including at least those
> two screens, unless it's clearly a bad idea.
>
> Chas
>
> On Fri, 7 Jun 2019, Tom Eitelhuber wrote:
>
> > Hi everyone,
> > Chas is definitely right that we need to have less haste and more
> "looking like you might do something" before swinging the ball. This is
> something I'll be
> > focusing on, as should we all.
> >
> > I've also been talking to Chas about this separately, with some
> additional thoughts. We could probably go on discussing it for some time,
> but the game is tomorrow
> > so I thought I'd share some ideas. I'd like to incorporate one or two
> routine screens into the offensive rotation, to get everyone a bit more
> used to setting
> > screens as a regular thing. I'd like to make it as simple as possible,
> so that even if it's not tactically optimal, it is at least more likely to
> happen.
> >
> > The two logical opportunities that fit into our standard rotation are:
> > 1. When the point passes to the wing, they screen the wing and roll
> baseline (on either side, but less important on the first swing)
> > 2. The high post stays on the weak side on the first swing, then on the
> reversal screens for the weak side point when they make their cut/drive
> >
> > For #1, it's preferable that the point cuts down on the usual angle and
> then cuts out to set the screen, rather than running directly at the wing
> after they pass,
> > but honestly the latter isn't too bad, as long as we're not doing it
> constantly. There's also the option of doing a wide dribble hand-off, if
> you feel like
> > changing it up. However you run it, the point ultimately ends up down
> low, where they normally would, and the rotation can continue.
> >
> > The wing needs to be aware of how people are moving to make the best
> play:
> > - Pass to the rolling screener (if they don't cover)
> > - Pass into the high post (if they collapse down)
> > - Drive/shoot (if there's space or a decent lane coming off the screen)
> > - Swing AFTER looking at the options (if they hedge effectively enough
> that there's no good option)
> >
> > To be clear, I don't want these to be optional steps, I'd like them to
> be the default (unless there's a really good alternative option) so that we
> actually do
> > them. Most of our "best endeavour" approaches to screening have resulted
> in very few actual screens, so I'd like to be a bit more proactive about
> it. Hope that all
> > makes sense to everyone. I'd quite like to try this on Saturday, at
> least for a handful of plays. If anyone has any questions let me know.
> >
> > Chas, if you think I've terribly misinterpreted any of your ideas, or
> have anything to add, please jump in!
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Tom
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 1:27 AM Chas Stan-Bishop <chas at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
> wrote:
> >       Hey all,
> >
> >       So, following up on the discussion I had with Alwyn after our last
> game,
> >       some video analysis. It's from the game before last (since I don't
> have
> >       the last game video yet), and I've only gone over the first
> video/~half
> >       in detail, so it's not perfect. Hopefully better than nothing
> though.
> >
> >       There were a total of 28 play in the clip. We fully reversed the
> ball 3
> >       times, which is not great. But, as I suspected, on only _one_ of
> the 25
> >       occasions where we didn't was it because a pass wasn't available.
> Even in
> >       that instance, it was the weak wing that was unavailable, not
> either slot,
> >       and it was because the cut to the weak side was slow (Tommo was
> posting
> >       rather than cutting), and the second pass was too hasty (player was
> >       completely unguarded, and never looked like driving/shooting).
> >
> >       We mostly aren't swinging too slowly. We're just choosing not to
> swing at
> >       all. We frequently just repeatedly bang our heads against the
> strong side
> >       defence.
> >
> >       Some examples:
> >       1 - The aforementioned play
> >
> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:21:07&end=00:21:20
> >
> >       This is a good example of a couple of things. Note Tommo's
> defender.
> >       That's a guard following Tommo all the way down to the low block
> leaving
> >       a single defender guarding everything above the blue line, and 4
> defenders
> >       in a line just above the restricted area. Tommo possibly thinks
> he's
> >       posting up a centre, since the forward went out to the corner
> (giving us
> >       an advantage), but he isn't. When the ball reverses to the slot
> (Seb),
> >       he's _totally_ unguarded.
> >
> >       Look at the weak side defence; it basically hasn't shifted. It has
> no
> >       cause to. Seb's obvious play would be to shoot, but they're not
> worried
> >       about that because a) Seb never even thinks about shooting, so no
> threat
> >       there and b) they might let us have that shot anyway, if they've
> got time
> >       to carefully consider.
> >
> >       We could drive that, but we're unlikely to get anything at the
> basket with
> >       three defenders still inside. Most of us will likely end up taking
> a
> >       midrange pull-up.
> >       I would argue that our two best options might well be;
> >
> >       1) Do nothing. Seriously. The defence isn't playing us, so there's
> no
> >       reason to do anything until they start to shift. Continuing the
> reverse to
> >       Alwyn gets us nowhere, since there's no-one on the weak wing and
> the weak
> >       slot is still guarded. Until something changes, it costs us
> nothing to
> >       hold the ball indefinitely and look like we're considering
> shooting.
> >       They'll move eventually, just because it feels wrong not to.
> >
> >       2) Drive, with every intention of kicking the ball straight back
> out
> >       again if the defence covers the drive/inside options at all. We
> can just
> >       run a strong side drive and kick repeatedly, gradually shifting the
> >       defence over, with the proviso that we _reverse the ball once the
> defence
> >       has shifted_. We usually miss that bit. For an example of this
> nearly
> >       working out, see
> >
> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:17:45&end=00:18:06
> >
> >       We make a few questionable decisions here, resulting in repeated
> strong
> >       side play/missing reversal (a whole other discussion), which
> causes Alwyn
> >       to eventually get bored and cut from the weak slot when he's not
> supposed
> >       to, screwing our spacing a bit.
> >
> >       But look at what happens to the defence each time the ball gets
> passed on
> >       the strong side. They gradually shift further and further across,
> >       especially when Andrew takes a step in that direction. By the time
> Alwyn
> >       bails, only the weak forward is paying any attention to Alwyn and
> Chris on
> >       the weak side, and no-one is really in position to play solid
> defence.
> >       This burns them when Tommo eventually skips it to Chris and Alwyn
> reverses
> >       course for the backdoor play.
> >
> >       This is better than the situation when the ball first goes back to
> the
> >       Chris at the strong slot. The weak side guard has shifted across a
> bit,
> >       but still has his eye on Tommo at the weak slot. Multiple people
> are still
> >       watching the baseline cut.
> >
> >       My point is, that we don't need to _always_ swing the ball as soon
> as we
> >       touch it, in an effort to beat the defence to the weak side. They
> often
> >       don't initially move much, and the more time we spend on the
> strong side
> >       (as long as we look vaguely threatening), the more time we give the
> >       defence to decide to shift across and begin to over-focus on our
> >       strong-side action.
> >
> >       The important thing is that when we _do_ swing the ball, everyone
> who
> >       touches it looks threatening (to make the out of position
> defenders feel
> >       like they have to play you, rather than ignoring you and returning
> to
> >       their optimal zone assignments), and all our weak side players are
> in
> >       position to take advantage. It's not speed that matters, it's
> timing and
> >       threat/misdirection.
> >
> >
> >       Returning to the original clip, if Seb fakes a shot, not only does
> it
> >       potentially attract the weak guard, resulting in an Alwyn drive
> rather
> >       than the mostly pointless high post entry, but it also gives Tommo
> time to
> >       cut through to the weak corner, which would almost certainly draw
> the
> >       weak forward out i.e. exactly what we're after.
> >
> >
> >       For an example of what I was talking about regarding timing of the
> >       slot-to-slot cut, see this
> >
> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:03:43&end=00:03:57
> >
> >       When Seb passes to me on the wing, the strong guard's attention is
> >       initially on us. He follows the cut a bit, then switches focus to
> the ball
> >       on the wing. He's a little out of position. The weak side guard
> drifts
> >       across and down to cover the post. But look what happens when Dave
> cuts
> >       across slightly early (I contend). Dave isn't getting the ball
> right away
> >       - I need to wait for Seb to get to the short corner - but the
> strong guard
> >       sees Dave cut out of the corner of his eye, and shifts back to
> make sure
> >       he can get there if the ball reverses. The weak guard recognises
> this, and
> >       hands off responsibility before Dave even catches the ball,
> leaving him
> >       time to recover to Tommo. The reversal gets up something, but not
> as much
> >       as it could.
> >
> >       If Dave holds off his cut for a couple of seconds, the strong
> guards
> >       attention would zero in on me. I would pass to the spot as Dave
> was on the
> >       move, and when he catches the ball, it would not be 100% clear
> who's
> >       resposibility it is; the defence wouldn't have had time to think
> about it.
> >       Dave can freeze dribble at the gap, freezing the weak guard,
> giving Tommo
> >       a clearer path on his cut. Now it's not clear if the guard can
> cover
> >       Tommo's cut, so the forward has to split attention between him and
> Seb.
> >       Which tilts the mistake lottery heavily in our favour, and
> probably makes
> >       the pass to Tommo much easier.
> >
> >       This shows the second half of what I mean
> >
> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:04:19&end=00:04:25
> >
> >       Tommo reverses slightly early from the wing*, but it does mean
> that Dave
> >       catches on the move despite the early timing of his cut. The
> strong guard
> >       has no time to adjust/recover, so the weak guard picks him up
> Dave. This
> >       results in the weak forward picking up Seb on the swing
> (questionable,
> >       unless he thinks Seb is lights out from 3, so I wouldn't count on
> that),
> >       and we might have created some great baseline action if Seb's pass
> hadn't
> >       been deflected.
> >
> >
> >       *Note: I say early because there's no time to investigate the two
> man game
> >       between wing and short corner. I'm okay with that on the first
> wing pass,
> >       since it's mostly to draw the defence across anyway, but we
> probably want
> >       to be more deliberate on the weak wing if we can get it there.
> >
> >
> >       Anyway, here are some more clips of us not reversing, despite
> having the
> >       option. I'll start with probably our worst decision of the game (me
> >       shooting rather than a driving and dishing for a likely uncontested
> >       layup), just so this email feels less like me beating up other
> people. :P
> >
> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:05:38&end=00:05:48
> >
> >       And some more:
> >
> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:14:14&end=00:14:29
> >
> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:06:21&end=00:06:34
> >
> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:11:09&end=00:11:20
> >
> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:15:44&end=00:15:58
> >
> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:18:59&end=00:19:07
> >
> >       That'll probably do. There are more (I can list them if people
> want).
> >       14-15 of our 28 plays involved us not reversing the ball when we
> have the
> >       option (not saying we should have reversed on all of them - there
> were
> >       some great options in there), 6-7 involved the ball entering into
> the high
> >       post early and never leaving (shot/foul/tie-up), and the remaining
> 6-8
> >       were either reversals, our single missing reversal option, or a
> bit weird
> >       (broken plays, early turnovers etc).
> >
> >
> >
> >       So. For our next game, I think we simply focus on completing the
> reversal
> >       unless we can get all the way to the bucket, or they just
> completely
> >       refuse to defend us.
> >
> >       I think we think of our initial wing pass as a setup pass. Wait
> for the
> >       play to fully develop and the defence to shift, and only shoot or
> >       agressivley seek to make a play under the above conditions
> (layup/lack of
> >       defence).
> >       Then fully reverse the ball, with the same provisos. I also want
> to try
> >       leaving the high post weak side, ready to screen the weak guard to
> stop
> >       him helping on the weak side, but we can talk about that at the
> game.
> >       Then I want to actually play a bit on wing. Seriously think about
> a 3,
> >       especially if you are Tommo or Alwyn. Wait for the cut to reach the
> >       short corner and see if you can safely get it there. Look at the
> two man
> >       game between short corner and wing - screens and kickouts. Look at
> the
> >       high post _now_, rather than before we've even hit one wing. Play
> for a
> >       bit. _Then_ swing it and try again on the other side.
> >
> >       TLDR; We need to reverse the ball more often, but with less
> haste/panic.
> >
> >       Probably enough wall of text. Hope it made some degree of sense - I
> >       haven't been sleeping great, so it might all be nonsense :P. Feel
> free to
> >       disagree/let me know your thoughts.
> >
> >       Chas
> >       _______________________________________________
> >       Basketball mailing list
> >       Basketball at ucc.asn.au
> >       https://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
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From tom.eitelhuber at gmail.com  Sun Jun  9 08:54:28 2019
From: tom.eitelhuber at gmail.com (Tom Eitelhuber)
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2019 08:54:28 +0800
Subject: [UCCBball] Some video analysis
In-Reply-To: <CAGdAE85oyKoFzH3QRxPxWEO293J38Xd81b0a56ZWY_Dk3ssr6A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906042229170.28984@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
	<CAGdAE86F8ByFvnt-OvAKkLGLDQG2ZhS5nMyCpHxpksS3cVkRmw@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.20.1906071821480.29467@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
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Message-ID: <CAGdAE87X3_uH=npDeGWtOoxjAEXPJ8RFwqLr+CCptoGWuuf26Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hey folks,

Great game yesterday! I'm interested to debrief and see what people thought
of the changes we made.

My main thoughts were:
- The screens on the wing were a bit up and down but mostly good - even the
fact that the point and wing were slowing down a bit because they knew they
needed to do *something* was having a positive effect in terms of shifting
the defense
- I don't think we get any screens to the baseline, but honestly I think
screening to the outside was better since it gives the roller that baseline
cut that we managed to exploit a few times (again, even if it didn't quite
come off a proper screen)
- The screens at the top were problematic because (in my experience) people
kept cutting straight down, rather than toward the outside. We need to work
on that
- Not sure about others, but I had two or three plays where I set the
screen and then the wing didn't actually dribble but just shot from deep or
passed early instead, which isn't super useful
- Pretty much every one of us needs to change our mentality about mid-range
shots. If you have a stable open jumper that's fine. If you can pivot to
get past your defender into an *open* leaner *closer to the hoop* that's
also acceptable albeit not amazing (why yes I am talking about one of my
own shots). If you're taking a leaner off the dribble or a contested
jumpshot, it's almost certainly a better option to kick out and continue
the swing. I think a lot of us get into a mindset that once the ball is
inside the perimeter we need to focus exclusively on getting the ball
closer to the hoop, but that's frequently not the best bet

On defense, I'd just note that we need to be more vigilant about scanning
the wing area, communicating movement (as Chris put it "handing the man
over from one defender to another"), not rotating out of position and then
picking up the sneaky baseline rebounders early. Their big fella didn't
just get put backs because he's ginormous, he got them because we let him
run all the way in under the hoop.

Anyway, great game, especially that second half.

Cheers,
Tom

On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 9:31 PM Tom Eitelhuber <tom.eitelhuber at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thanks Chas, all valid suggestions. The main reason I said the screener
> should always roll baseline is that it might be easier for people to just
> have one approach, that fits into the current rotation without any
> modifications. That said, I'm more than happy for people to change up the
> screen depending on the situation, as long as they're screening I'm happy!
> Similar thinking applies to the "not important to screen on the first
> swing" part - you're correct, but I'm just trying to have fewer variations
> so it's easy to remember..
>
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 8:53 PM Chas Stan-Bishop <chas at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> > 1. When the point passes to the wing, they screen the wing and roll
>> baseline (on either side, but less important on the first swing)
>> <snip>
>> > For #1, it's preferable that the point cuts down on the usual angle and
>> then cuts out to set the screen, rather than running directly at the wing
>> after they pass,
>> > but honestly the latter isn't too bad, as long as we're not doing it
>> constantly. There's also the option of doing a wide dribble hand-off, if
>> you feel like
>> > changing it up. However you run it, the point ultimately ends up down
>> low, where they normally would, and the rotation can continue.
>>
>>
>> I'd add two things here. First, I'd say it's _much_ less important on the
>> first swing. The main focus on the first swing should be forcing the
>> defence to shift across by running something that looks threatening, and
>> exploiting obivous defensive lapses (e.g. they completely fail to defend
>> the cut). Rather than trying to _create_ anything. So I'd say set a
>> screen
>> if it looks like it'll lead to a layup, or if you need to in order to
>> threaten the defence.
>> On any reverse though, there should definitely be a screen every time the
>> cutter isn't a passing option.
>>
>> Second, I wouldn't say that the screener should _always_ roll baseline,
>> or
>> will always end up down low and continuing to the weak side. It will
>> depend on where the wing is, and where the defence is. Sometimes the
>> screen will need to be set for a baseline drive, and the roll will be to
>> the mid-post area. And sometimes (maybe even often, when the drive is
>> baseline), the screener should probably pop instead, with the
>> ball-handler
>> moving to the weak side instead. We already have a high post in there,
>> and
>> a weak side cutter, so having a strong kick option will frequently be
>> more
>> valuable than one more body inside clogging the paint. We'll just have to
>> play it by ear and learn by screwing up. :P
>> The roll should definitely be the first look though, so we have a chance
>> at any open lanes they leave us. We can always scramble if our spacing
>> gets a bit screwed and we lose our kick.
>>
>>
>> > 2. The high post stays on the weak side on the first swing, then on the
>> reversal screens for the weak side point when they make their cut/drive
>>
>> Definitely this. Also, just to help out our post a bit, I think we should
>> maybe try slightly harder to beat a soft denial on the wing than we
>> usually do. We still don't want to force any risky passes, but we should
>> be trying to use tools like v-cuts and screens from the wing/dribble
>> handoffs
>> to get the ball to the wing. Although that second one involves us not
>> picking up our dribble early, which might be a problem. :P
>>
>> But yes, I think every reversal should default to including at least
>> those
>> two screens, unless it's clearly a bad idea.
>>
>> Chas
>>
>> On Fri, 7 Jun 2019, Tom Eitelhuber wrote:
>>
>> > Hi everyone,
>> > Chas is definitely right that we need to have less haste and more
>> "looking like you might do something" before swinging the ball. This is
>> something I'll be
>> > focusing on, as should we all.
>> >
>> > I've also been talking to Chas about this separately, with some
>> additional thoughts. We could probably go on discussing it for some time,
>> but the game is tomorrow
>> > so I thought I'd share some ideas. I'd like to incorporate one or two
>> routine screens into the offensive rotation, to get everyone a bit more
>> used to setting
>> > screens as a regular thing. I'd like to make it as simple as possible,
>> so that even if it's not tactically optimal, it is at least more likely to
>> happen.
>> >
>> > The two logical opportunities that fit into our standard rotation are:
>> > 1. When the point passes to the wing, they screen the wing and roll
>> baseline (on either side, but less important on the first swing)
>> > 2. The high post stays on the weak side on the first swing, then on the
>> reversal screens for the weak side point when they make their cut/drive
>> >
>> > For #1, it's preferable that the point cuts down on the usual angle and
>> then cuts out to set the screen, rather than running directly at the wing
>> after they pass,
>> > but honestly the latter isn't too bad, as long as we're not doing it
>> constantly. There's also the option of doing a wide dribble hand-off, if
>> you feel like
>> > changing it up. However you run it, the point ultimately ends up down
>> low, where they normally would, and the rotation can continue.
>> >
>> > The wing needs to be aware of how people are moving to make the best
>> play:
>> > - Pass to the rolling screener (if they don't cover)
>> > - Pass into the high post (if they collapse down)
>> > - Drive/shoot (if there's space or a decent lane coming off the screen)
>> > - Swing AFTER looking at the options (if they hedge effectively enough
>> that there's no good option)
>> >
>> > To be clear, I don't want these to be optional steps, I'd like them to
>> be the default (unless there's a really good alternative option) so that we
>> actually do
>> > them. Most of our "best endeavour" approaches to screening have
>> resulted in very few actual screens, so I'd like to be a bit more proactive
>> about it. Hope that all
>> > makes sense to everyone. I'd quite like to try this on Saturday, at
>> least for a handful of plays. If anyone has any questions let me know.
>> >
>> > Chas, if you think I've terribly misinterpreted any of your ideas, or
>> have anything to add, please jump in!
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Tom
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 1:27 AM Chas Stan-Bishop <chas at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
>> wrote:
>> >       Hey all,
>> >
>> >       So, following up on the discussion I had with Alwyn after our
>> last game,
>> >       some video analysis. It's from the game before last (since I
>> don't have
>> >       the last game video yet), and I've only gone over the first
>> video/~half
>> >       in detail, so it's not perfect. Hopefully better than nothing
>> though.
>> >
>> >       There were a total of 28 play in the clip. We fully reversed the
>> ball 3
>> >       times, which is not great. But, as I suspected, on only _one_ of
>> the 25
>> >       occasions where we didn't was it because a pass wasn't available.
>> Even in
>> >       that instance, it was the weak wing that was unavailable, not
>> either slot,
>> >       and it was because the cut to the weak side was slow (Tommo was
>> posting
>> >       rather than cutting), and the second pass was too hasty (player
>> was
>> >       completely unguarded, and never looked like driving/shooting).
>> >
>> >       We mostly aren't swinging too slowly. We're just choosing not to
>> swing at
>> >       all. We frequently just repeatedly bang our heads against the
>> strong side
>> >       defence.
>> >
>> >       Some examples:
>> >       1 - The aforementioned play
>> >
>> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:21:07&end=00:21:20
>> >
>> >       This is a good example of a couple of things. Note Tommo's
>> defender.
>> >       That's a guard following Tommo all the way down to the low block
>> leaving
>> >       a single defender guarding everything above the blue line, and 4
>> defenders
>> >       in a line just above the restricted area. Tommo possibly thinks
>> he's
>> >       posting up a centre, since the forward went out to the corner
>> (giving us
>> >       an advantage), but he isn't. When the ball reverses to the slot
>> (Seb),
>> >       he's _totally_ unguarded.
>> >
>> >       Look at the weak side defence; it basically hasn't shifted. It
>> has no
>> >       cause to. Seb's obvious play would be to shoot, but they're not
>> worried
>> >       about that because a) Seb never even thinks about shooting, so no
>> threat
>> >       there and b) they might let us have that shot anyway, if they've
>> got time
>> >       to carefully consider.
>> >
>> >       We could drive that, but we're unlikely to get anything at the
>> basket with
>> >       three defenders still inside. Most of us will likely end up
>> taking a
>> >       midrange pull-up.
>> >       I would argue that our two best options might well be;
>> >
>> >       1) Do nothing. Seriously. The defence isn't playing us, so
>> there's no
>> >       reason to do anything until they start to shift. Continuing the
>> reverse to
>> >       Alwyn gets us nowhere, since there's no-one on the weak wing and
>> the weak
>> >       slot is still guarded. Until something changes, it costs us
>> nothing to
>> >       hold the ball indefinitely and look like we're considering
>> shooting.
>> >       They'll move eventually, just because it feels wrong not to.
>> >
>> >       2) Drive, with every intention of kicking the ball straight back
>> out
>> >       again if the defence covers the drive/inside options at all. We
>> can just
>> >       run a strong side drive and kick repeatedly, gradually shifting
>> the
>> >       defence over, with the proviso that we _reverse the ball once the
>> defence
>> >       has shifted_. We usually miss that bit. For an example of this
>> nearly
>> >       working out, see
>> >
>> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:17:45&end=00:18:06
>> >
>> >       We make a few questionable decisions here, resulting in repeated
>> strong
>> >       side play/missing reversal (a whole other discussion), which
>> causes Alwyn
>> >       to eventually get bored and cut from the weak slot when he's not
>> supposed
>> >       to, screwing our spacing a bit.
>> >
>> >       But look at what happens to the defence each time the ball gets
>> passed on
>> >       the strong side. They gradually shift further and further across,
>> >       especially when Andrew takes a step in that direction. By the
>> time Alwyn
>> >       bails, only the weak forward is paying any attention to Alwyn and
>> Chris on
>> >       the weak side, and no-one is really in position to play solid
>> defence.
>> >       This burns them when Tommo eventually skips it to Chris and Alwyn
>> reverses
>> >       course for the backdoor play.
>> >
>> >       This is better than the situation when the ball first goes back
>> to the
>> >       Chris at the strong slot. The weak side guard has shifted across
>> a bit,
>> >       but still has his eye on Tommo at the weak slot. Multiple people
>> are still
>> >       watching the baseline cut.
>> >
>> >       My point is, that we don't need to _always_ swing the ball as
>> soon as we
>> >       touch it, in an effort to beat the defence to the weak side. They
>> often
>> >       don't initially move much, and the more time we spend on the
>> strong side
>> >       (as long as we look vaguely threatening), the more time we give
>> the
>> >       defence to decide to shift across and begin to over-focus on our
>> >       strong-side action.
>> >
>> >       The important thing is that when we _do_ swing the ball, everyone
>> who
>> >       touches it looks threatening (to make the out of position
>> defenders feel
>> >       like they have to play you, rather than ignoring you and
>> returning to
>> >       their optimal zone assignments), and all our weak side players
>> are in
>> >       position to take advantage. It's not speed that matters, it's
>> timing and
>> >       threat/misdirection.
>> >
>> >
>> >       Returning to the original clip, if Seb fakes a shot, not only
>> does it
>> >       potentially attract the weak guard, resulting in an Alwyn drive
>> rather
>> >       than the mostly pointless high post entry, but it also gives
>> Tommo time to
>> >       cut through to the weak corner, which would almost certainly draw
>> the
>> >       weak forward out i.e. exactly what we're after.
>> >
>> >
>> >       For an example of what I was talking about regarding timing of the
>> >       slot-to-slot cut, see this
>> >
>> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:03:43&end=00:03:57
>> >
>> >       When Seb passes to me on the wing, the strong guard's attention is
>> >       initially on us. He follows the cut a bit, then switches focus to
>> the ball
>> >       on the wing. He's a little out of position. The weak side guard
>> drifts
>> >       across and down to cover the post. But look what happens when
>> Dave cuts
>> >       across slightly early (I contend). Dave isn't getting the ball
>> right away
>> >       - I need to wait for Seb to get to the short corner - but the
>> strong guard
>> >       sees Dave cut out of the corner of his eye, and shifts back to
>> make sure
>> >       he can get there if the ball reverses. The weak guard recognises
>> this, and
>> >       hands off responsibility before Dave even catches the ball,
>> leaving him
>> >       time to recover to Tommo. The reversal gets up something, but not
>> as much
>> >       as it could.
>> >
>> >       If Dave holds off his cut for a couple of seconds, the strong
>> guards
>> >       attention would zero in on me. I would pass to the spot as Dave
>> was on the
>> >       move, and when he catches the ball, it would not be 100% clear
>> who's
>> >       resposibility it is; the defence wouldn't have had time to think
>> about it.
>> >       Dave can freeze dribble at the gap, freezing the weak guard,
>> giving Tommo
>> >       a clearer path on his cut. Now it's not clear if the guard can
>> cover
>> >       Tommo's cut, so the forward has to split attention between him
>> and Seb.
>> >       Which tilts the mistake lottery heavily in our favour, and
>> probably makes
>> >       the pass to Tommo much easier.
>> >
>> >       This shows the second half of what I mean
>> >
>> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:04:19&end=00:04:25
>> >
>> >       Tommo reverses slightly early from the wing*, but it does mean
>> that Dave
>> >       catches on the move despite the early timing of his cut. The
>> strong guard
>> >       has no time to adjust/recover, so the weak guard picks him up
>> Dave. This
>> >       results in the weak forward picking up Seb on the swing
>> (questionable,
>> >       unless he thinks Seb is lights out from 3, so I wouldn't count on
>> that),
>> >       and we might have created some great baseline action if Seb's
>> pass hadn't
>> >       been deflected.
>> >
>> >
>> >       *Note: I say early because there's no time to investigate the two
>> man game
>> >       between wing and short corner. I'm okay with that on the first
>> wing pass,
>> >       since it's mostly to draw the defence across anyway, but we
>> probably want
>> >       to be more deliberate on the weak wing if we can get it there.
>> >
>> >
>> >       Anyway, here are some more clips of us not reversing, despite
>> having the
>> >       option. I'll start with probably our worst decision of the game
>> (me
>> >       shooting rather than a driving and dishing for a likely
>> uncontested
>> >       layup), just so this email feels less like me beating up other
>> people. :P
>> >
>> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:05:38&end=00:05:48
>> >
>> >       And some more:
>> >
>> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:14:14&end=00:14:29
>> >
>> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:06:21&end=00:06:34
>> >
>> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:11:09&end=00:11:20
>> >
>> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:15:44&end=00:15:58
>> >
>> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:18:59&end=00:19:07
>> >
>> >       That'll probably do. There are more (I can list them if people
>> want).
>> >       14-15 of our 28 plays involved us not reversing the ball when we
>> have the
>> >       option (not saying we should have reversed on all of them - there
>> were
>> >       some great options in there), 6-7 involved the ball entering into
>> the high
>> >       post early and never leaving (shot/foul/tie-up), and the
>> remaining 6-8
>> >       were either reversals, our single missing reversal option, or a
>> bit weird
>> >       (broken plays, early turnovers etc).
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >       So. For our next game, I think we simply focus on completing the
>> reversal
>> >       unless we can get all the way to the bucket, or they just
>> completely
>> >       refuse to defend us.
>> >
>> >       I think we think of our initial wing pass as a setup pass. Wait
>> for the
>> >       play to fully develop and the defence to shift, and only shoot or
>> >       agressivley seek to make a play under the above conditions
>> (layup/lack of
>> >       defence).
>> >       Then fully reverse the ball, with the same provisos. I also want
>> to try
>> >       leaving the high post weak side, ready to screen the weak guard
>> to stop
>> >       him helping on the weak side, but we can talk about that at the
>> game.
>> >       Then I want to actually play a bit on wing. Seriously think about
>> a 3,
>> >       especially if you are Tommo or Alwyn. Wait for the cut to reach
>> the
>> >       short corner and see if you can safely get it there. Look at the
>> two man
>> >       game between short corner and wing - screens and kickouts. Look
>> at the
>> >       high post _now_, rather than before we've even hit one wing. Play
>> for a
>> >       bit. _Then_ swing it and try again on the other side.
>> >
>> >       TLDR; We need to reverse the ball more often, but with less
>> haste/panic.
>> >
>> >       Probably enough wall of text. Hope it made some degree of sense -
>> I
>> >       haven't been sleeping great, so it might all be nonsense :P. Feel
>> free to
>> >       disagree/let me know your thoughts.
>> >
>> >       Chas
>> >       _______________________________________________
>> >       Basketball mailing list
>> >       Basketball at ucc.asn.au
>> >       https://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball
>> >
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> Basketball mailing list
>> Basketball at ucc.asn.au
>> https://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball
>>
>
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From ajbailey11 at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 12 09:36:46 2019
From: ajbailey11 at yahoo.com (Andrew Bailey)
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 01:36:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [UCCBball] Game this week
References: <1203263642.1816922.1560303406124.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1203263642.1816922.1560303406124@mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Everyone,?
The game this week is at 3:30pm. I won't be there but Sebastian will be. Who else can make it? James can you play?
Regards,
Andrew.
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From tom.eitelhuber at gmail.com  Wed Jun 12 10:50:05 2019
From: tom.eitelhuber at gmail.com (Tom Eitelhuber)
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 10:50:05 +0800
Subject: [UCCBball] Game this week
In-Reply-To: <1203263642.1816922.1560303406124@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1203263642.1816922.1560303406124.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1203263642.1816922.1560303406124@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAGdAE86QPTFb+9z8A9ztAay9io+b+BYjkjJEjhUH+s7_DduOJw@mail.gmail.com>

I'm in.

On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 9:37 AM Andrew Bailey <ajbailey11 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
>
> The game this week is at 3:30pm. I won't be there but Sebastian will be.
> Who else can make it? James can you play?
>
> Regards,
> Andrew.
> _______________________________________________
> Basketball mailing list
> Basketball at ucc.asn.au
> https://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball
>
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From grubbcm at gmail.com  Wed Jun 12 14:20:21 2019
From: grubbcm at gmail.com (Christopher Grubb)
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:20:21 +0800
Subject: [UCCBball] Game this week
In-Reply-To: <CAGdAE86QPTFb+9z8A9ztAay9io+b+BYjkjJEjhUH+s7_DduOJw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1203263642.1816922.1560303406124.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1203263642.1816922.1560303406124@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAGdAE86QPTFb+9z8A9ztAay9io+b+BYjkjJEjhUH+s7_DduOJw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEss1UYzXVFoM0qoLyPytcGkKgc17=5XnP=w7m5xh=au18r3-g@mail.gmail.com>

I'm in

On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 10:50 AM Tom Eitelhuber <tom.eitelhuber at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I'm in.
>
> On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 9:37 AM Andrew Bailey <ajbailey11 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Everyone,
>>
>> The game this week is at 3:30pm. I won't be there but Sebastian will be.
>> Who else can make it? James can you play?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Andrew.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Basketball mailing list
>> Basketball at ucc.asn.au
>> https://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Basketball mailing list
> Basketball at ucc.asn.au
> https://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball
>
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From trs80 at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au  Thu Jun 13 10:42:29 2019
From: trs80 at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (James Andrewartha)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 10:42:29 +0800 (AWST)
Subject: [UCCBball] Game this week
In-Reply-To: <1203263642.1816922.1560303406124@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1203263642.1816922.1560303406124.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1203263642.1816922.1560303406124@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906131034550.23852@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>

On Wed, 12 Jun 2019, Andrew Bailey wrote:

> The game this week is at 3:30pm. I won't be there but Sebastian will be. Who else can make it? James can you play?

Yes, I will play this week.

-- 
# TRS-80              trs80(a)ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au #/ "Otherwise Bub here will do \
# UCC Wheel Member     http://trs80.ucc.asn.au/ #|  what squirrels do best     |
[ "There's nobody getting rich writing          ]|  -- Collect and hide your   |
[  software that I know of" -- Bill Gates, 1980 ]\  nuts." -- Acid Reflux #231 /

From chas at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au  Fri Jun 14 06:52:22 2019
From: chas at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (Chas Stan-Bishop)
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 06:52:22 +0800 (AWST)
Subject: [UCCBball] Game this week
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906131034550.23852@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
References: <1203263642.1816922.1560303406124.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1203263642.1816922.1560303406124@mail.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.20.1906131034550.23852@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906140651440.24933@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>


Keep forgetting to reply to this. Dave and I should be there (unless Dave 
is coming down sick - hope not).

Chas

On Thu, 13 Jun 2019, James Andrewartha wrote:

> On Wed, 12 Jun 2019, Andrew Bailey wrote:
>
>> The game this week is at 3:30pm. I won't be there but Sebastian will be. Who else can make it? James can you play?
>
> Yes, I will play this week.
>
> -- 
> # TRS-80              trs80(a)ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au #/ "Otherwise Bub here will do \
> # UCC Wheel Member     http://trs80.ucc.asn.au/ #|  what squirrels do best     |
> [ "There's nobody getting rich writing          ]|  -- Collect and hide your   |
> [  software that I know of" -- Bill Gates, 1980 ]\  nuts." -- Acid Reflux #231 /
> _______________________________________________
> Basketball mailing list
> Basketball at ucc.asn.au
> https://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball
>

From zarquin at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au  Fri Jun 14 08:48:07 2019
From: zarquin at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (Alwyn Nixon-Lloyd)
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 08:48:07 +0800 (AWST)
Subject: [UCCBball] Game this week
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906140651440.24933@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
References: <1203263642.1816922.1560303406124.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1203263642.1816922.1560303406124@mail.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.20.1906131034550.23852@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
	<alpine.DEB.2.20.1906140651440.24933@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906140847550.28675@mussel.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>


I'll be there.

A

On Fri, 14 Jun 2019, Chas Stan-Bishop wrote:

>
> Keep forgetting to reply to this. Dave and I should be there (unless Dave
> is coming down sick - hope not).
>
> Chas
>
> On Thu, 13 Jun 2019, James Andrewartha wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 12 Jun 2019, Andrew Bailey wrote:
>>
>>> The game this week is at 3:30pm. I won't be there but Sebastian will be. Who else can make it? James can you play?
>>
>> Yes, I will play this week.
>>
>> --
>> # TRS-80              trs80(a)ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au #/ "Otherwise Bub here will do \
>> # UCC Wheel Member     http://trs80.ucc.asn.au/ #|  what squirrels do best     |
>> [ "There's nobody getting rich writing          ]|  -- Collect and hide your   |
>> [  software that I know of" -- Bill Gates, 1980 ]\  nuts." -- Acid Reflux #231 /
>> _______________________________________________
>> Basketball mailing list
>> Basketball at ucc.asn.au
>> https://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Basketball mailing list
> Basketball at ucc.asn.au
> https://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball
>

From trs80 at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au  Fri Jun 14 16:45:10 2019
From: trs80 at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (James Andrewartha)
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 16:45:10 +0800 (AWST)
Subject: [UCCBball] Game this week
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906140847550.28675@mussel.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
References: <1203263642.1816922.1560303406124.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1203263642.1816922.1560303406124@mail.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.20.1906131034550.23852@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
	<alpine.DEB.2.20.1906140651440.24933@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
	<alpine.DEB.2.20.1906140847550.28675@mussel.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906141644590.24304@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>

On Fri, 14 Jun 2019, Alwyn Nixon-Lloyd wrote:

> I'll be there.

I have a bit of a cold but I should still make it.

-- 
# TRS-80              trs80(a)ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au #/ "Otherwise Bub here will do \
# UCC Wheel Member     http://trs80.ucc.asn.au/ #|  what squirrels do best     |
[ "There's nobody getting rich writing          ]|  -- Collect and hide your   |
[  software that I know of" -- Bill Gates, 1980 ]\  nuts." -- Acid Reflux #231 /

From zarquin at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au  Sat Jun 15 18:53:08 2019
From: zarquin at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (Alwyn Nixon-Lloyd)
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2019 18:53:08 +0800 (AWST)
Subject: [UCCBball] more videos
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906151851060.28675@mussel.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>

More videos uploading.

They will be:

>From a few weeks ago.
https://youtu.be/xxiPgPAH7J4
https://youtu.be/mA1gH5zDies

The ones from today are still uploading.

From zarquin at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au  Sun Jun 16 23:54:09 2019
From: zarquin at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (Alwyn Nixon-Lloyd)
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2019 23:54:09 +0800 (AWST)
Subject: [UCCBball] more videos
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906151851060.28675@mussel.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906151851060.28675@mussel.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906162353450.28675@mussel.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>


The weekends game.

https://youtu.be/JuBTLYhIWOY
https://youtu.be/0D4Q0z9R5TE

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019, Alwyn Nixon-Lloyd wrote:

> More videos uploading.
>
> They will be:
>
> From a few weeks ago.
> https://youtu.be/xxiPgPAH7J4
> https://youtu.be/mA1gH5zDies
>
> The ones from today are still uploading.
>

From ajbailey11 at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 18 11:49:22 2019
From: ajbailey11 at yahoo.com (Andrew Bailey)
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 03:49:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [UCCBball] Game this week
References: <229780266.2629862.1560829762178.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <229780266.2629862.1560829762178@mail.yahoo.com>

Game this week is at 1:50pm. Myself and Seb will be there, who else?
Regards,Andrew
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From zarquin at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au  Tue Jun 18 14:16:41 2019
From: zarquin at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (Alwyn Nixon-Lloyd)
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 14:16:41 +0800 (AWST)
Subject: [UCCBball] Game this week
In-Reply-To: <229780266.2629862.1560829762178@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <229780266.2629862.1560829762178.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<229780266.2629862.1560829762178@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906181416260.29571@mussel.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>


I'm not available this week.  :(

Alwyn


On Tue, 18 Jun 2019, Andrew Bailey wrote:

> Game this week is at 1:50pm. Myself and Seb will be there, who else?
> 
> Regards,
> Andrew
> 
>
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Basketball at ucc.asn.au
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From tom.eitelhuber at gmail.com  Tue Jun 18 14:56:39 2019
From: tom.eitelhuber at gmail.com (Tom Eitelhuber)
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 14:56:39 +0800
Subject: [UCCBball] Game this week
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906181416260.29571@mussel.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
References: <229780266.2629862.1560829762178.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<229780266.2629862.1560829762178@mail.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.20.1906181416260.29571@mussel.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
Message-ID: <CAGdAE87rauNEqHsq6UnpvU6wKygt9uCfF=2Ki5rZgfVN6OoiTA@mail.gmail.com>

In.

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 14:17 Alwyn Nixon-Lloyd, <zarquin at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
wrote:

>
> I'm not available this week.  :(
>
> Alwyn
>
>
> On Tue, 18 Jun 2019, Andrew Bailey wrote:
>
> > Game this week is at 1:50pm. Myself and Seb will be there, who else?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Andrew
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> Basketball mailing list
> Basketball at ucc.asn.au
> https://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball
> _______________________________________________
> Basketball mailing list
> Basketball at ucc.asn.au
> https://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball
>
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From grubbcm at gmail.com  Tue Jun 18 15:03:55 2019
From: grubbcm at gmail.com (Christopher Grubb)
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 15:03:55 +0800
Subject: [UCCBball] Game this week
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906181416260.29571@mussel.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
References: <229780266.2629862.1560829762178.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<229780266.2629862.1560829762178@mail.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.20.1906181416260.29571@mussel.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
Message-ID: <CAEss1UYLj7rVJJ7zqB1bu+T3w=xvQGasU8+R5mccB-2HO=TCcw@mail.gmail.com>

I'm in

On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 2:17 PM Alwyn Nixon-Lloyd <zarquin at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
wrote:

>
> I'm not available this week.  :(
>
> Alwyn
>
>
> On Tue, 18 Jun 2019, Andrew Bailey wrote:
>
> > Game this week is at 1:50pm. Myself and Seb will be there, who else?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Andrew
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> Basketball mailing list
> Basketball at ucc.asn.au
> https://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball
> _______________________________________________
> Basketball mailing list
> Basketball at ucc.asn.au
> https://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball
>
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From chas at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au  Wed Jun 19 04:26:28 2019
From: chas at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (Chas Stan-Bishop)
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 04:26:28 +0800 (AWST)
Subject: [UCCBball] Game this week
In-Reply-To: <CAEss1UYLj7rVJJ7zqB1bu+T3w=xvQGasU8+R5mccB-2HO=TCcw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <229780266.2629862.1560829762178.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<229780266.2629862.1560829762178@mail.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.20.1906181416260.29571@mussel.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
	<CAEss1UYLj7rVJJ7zqB1bu+T3w=xvQGasU8+R5mccB-2HO=TCcw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906190424430.3424@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>


Dave is currently sick, but hopes to be well enough to play. I should be 
playing unless Dave is too contagious. :P

Chas

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019, Christopher Grubb wrote:

> I'm in
> 
> On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 2:17 PM Alwyn Nixon-Lloyd
> <zarquin at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> wrote:
>
>       I'm not available this week.? :(
>
>       Alwyn
> 
>
>       On Tue, 18 Jun 2019, Andrew Bailey wrote:
>
>       > Game this week is at 1:50pm. Myself and Seb will be there, who
>       else?
>       >
>       > Regards,
>       > Andrew
>       >
>       >_______________________________________________
>       Basketball mailing list
>       Basketball at ucc.asn.au
>       https://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball
>       _______________________________________________
>       Basketball mailing list
>       Basketball at ucc.asn.au
>       https://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball
> 
> 
>

From ajbailey11 at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 26 13:15:41 2019
From: ajbailey11 at yahoo.com (Andrew Bailey)
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 05:15:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [UCCBball] Game this week
References: <395614249.89121.1561526141931.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <395614249.89121.1561526141931@mail.yahoo.com>

Is on at 2:40pm. Myself and seb will be there though we might be a few minutes late. Can someone else pay please.
Who can make it.
Regards,
Andrew
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From zarquin at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au  Wed Jun 26 15:25:12 2019
From: zarquin at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (Alwyn Nixon-Lloyd)
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 15:25:12 +0800 (AWST)
Subject: [UCCBball] Game this week
In-Reply-To: <395614249.89121.1561526141931@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <395614249.89121.1561526141931.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<395614249.89121.1561526141931@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906261525020.10252@mussel.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>


I can make it.

A



On Wed, 26 Jun 2019, Andrew Bailey wrote:

> Is on at 2:40pm. Myself and seb will be there though we might be a few
> minutes late. Can someone else pay please.
> 
> Who can make it.
> 
> Regards,
> Andrew
> 
>
-------------- next part --------------
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Basketball mailing list
Basketball at ucc.asn.au
https://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball

From tom.eitelhuber at gmail.com  Wed Jun 26 16:48:23 2019
From: tom.eitelhuber at gmail.com (Tom Eitelhuber)
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 16:48:23 +0800
Subject: [UCCBball] Game this week
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906261525020.10252@mussel.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
References: <395614249.89121.1561526141931.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<395614249.89121.1561526141931@mail.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.20.1906261525020.10252@mussel.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
Message-ID: <CAGdAE84Pmzh1n_K9jQS8==2KOfrF9ohfyHPzZxQedsqiP0so=Q@mail.gmail.com>

I'm in.

On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 3:26 PM Alwyn Nixon-Lloyd <zarquin at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
wrote:

>
> I can make it.
>
> A
>
>
>
> On Wed, 26 Jun 2019, Andrew Bailey wrote:
>
> > Is on at 2:40pm. Myself and seb will be there though we might be a few
> > minutes late. Can someone else pay please.
> >
> > Who can make it.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Andrew
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> Basketball mailing list
> Basketball at ucc.asn.au
> https://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball
> _______________________________________________
> Basketball mailing list
> Basketball at ucc.asn.au
> https://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball
>
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From chas at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au  Wed Jun 26 18:48:29 2019
From: chas at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (Chas Stan-Bishop)
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 18:48:29 +0800 (AWST)
Subject: [UCCBball] Game this week
In-Reply-To: <CAGdAE84Pmzh1n_K9jQS8==2KOfrF9ohfyHPzZxQedsqiP0so=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <395614249.89121.1561526141931.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<395614249.89121.1561526141931@mail.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.20.1906261525020.10252@mussel.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
	<CAGdAE84Pmzh1n_K9jQS8==2KOfrF9ohfyHPzZxQedsqiP0so=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906261848150.13419@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>


Dave and I should be playing.

Chas

On Wed, 26 Jun 2019, Tom Eitelhuber wrote:

> I'm in.
> 
> On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 3:26 PM Alwyn Nixon-Lloyd
> <zarquin at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> wrote:
>
>       I can make it.
>
>       A
> 
> 
>
>       On Wed, 26 Jun 2019, Andrew Bailey wrote:
>
>       > Is on at 2:40pm. Myself and seb will be there though we might
>       be a few
>       > minutes late. Can someone else pay please.
>       >
>       > Who can make it.
>       >
>       > Regards,
>       > Andrew
>       >
>       >_______________________________________________
>       Basketball mailing list
>       Basketball at ucc.asn.au
>       https://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball
>       _______________________________________________
>       Basketball mailing list
>       Basketball at ucc.asn.au
>       https://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball
> 
> 
>

From grubbcm at gmail.com  Wed Jun 26 23:52:35 2019
From: grubbcm at gmail.com (Christopher Grubb)
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 23:52:35 +0800
Subject: [UCCBball] Game this week
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1906261848150.13419@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
References: <395614249.89121.1561526141931.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<395614249.89121.1561526141931@mail.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.20.1906261525020.10252@mussel.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
	<CAGdAE84Pmzh1n_K9jQS8==2KOfrF9ohfyHPzZxQedsqiP0so=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.20.1906261848150.13419@motsugo.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
Message-ID: <CAEss1UZcCYyLbS6THAMU6VoVg_2y+0O+SWut61RLCLvuW0S9Zw@mail.gmail.com>

I'm in, will need to get moving after the game as I am taking all 3 kids to
a party in Hilary's at 5.

On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 6:49 PM Chas Stan-Bishop <chas at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
wrote:

>
> Dave and I should be playing.
>
> Chas
>
> On Wed, 26 Jun 2019, Tom Eitelhuber wrote:
>
> > I'm in.
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 3:26 PM Alwyn Nixon-Lloyd
> > <zarquin at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> wrote:
> >
> >       I can make it.
> >
> >       A
> >
> >
> >
> >       On Wed, 26 Jun 2019, Andrew Bailey wrote:
> >
> >       > Is on at 2:40pm. Myself and seb will be there though we might
> >       be a few
> >       > minutes late. Can someone else pay please.
> >       >
> >       > Who can make it.
> >       >
> >       > Regards,
> >       > Andrew
> >       >
> >       >_______________________________________________
> >       Basketball mailing list
> >       Basketball at ucc.asn.au
> >       https://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball
> >       _______________________________________________
> >       Basketball mailing list
> >       Basketball at ucc.asn.au
> >       https://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Basketball mailing list
> Basketball at ucc.asn.au
> https://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/basketball
>
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