[UCCBball] Some video analysis
Tom Eitelhuber
tom.eitelhuber at gmail.com
Fri Jun 7 21:31:13 AWST 2019
Thanks Chas, all valid suggestions. The main reason I said the screener
should always roll baseline is that it might be easier for people to just
have one approach, that fits into the current rotation without any
modifications. That said, I'm more than happy for people to change up the
screen depending on the situation, as long as they're screening I'm happy!
Similar thinking applies to the "not important to screen on the first
swing" part - you're correct, but I'm just trying to have fewer variations
so it's easy to remember..
On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 8:53 PM Chas Stan-Bishop <chas at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
wrote:
>
>
> > 1. When the point passes to the wing, they screen the wing and roll
> baseline (on either side, but less important on the first swing)
> <snip>
> > For #1, it's preferable that the point cuts down on the usual angle and
> then cuts out to set the screen, rather than running directly at the wing
> after they pass,
> > but honestly the latter isn't too bad, as long as we're not doing it
> constantly. There's also the option of doing a wide dribble hand-off, if
> you feel like
> > changing it up. However you run it, the point ultimately ends up down
> low, where they normally would, and the rotation can continue.
>
>
> I'd add two things here. First, I'd say it's _much_ less important on the
> first swing. The main focus on the first swing should be forcing the
> defence to shift across by running something that looks threatening, and
> exploiting obivous defensive lapses (e.g. they completely fail to defend
> the cut). Rather than trying to _create_ anything. So I'd say set a screen
> if it looks like it'll lead to a layup, or if you need to in order to
> threaten the defence.
> On any reverse though, there should definitely be a screen every time the
> cutter isn't a passing option.
>
> Second, I wouldn't say that the screener should _always_ roll baseline, or
> will always end up down low and continuing to the weak side. It will
> depend on where the wing is, and where the defence is. Sometimes the
> screen will need to be set for a baseline drive, and the roll will be to
> the mid-post area. And sometimes (maybe even often, when the drive is
> baseline), the screener should probably pop instead, with the ball-handler
> moving to the weak side instead. We already have a high post in there, and
> a weak side cutter, so having a strong kick option will frequently be more
> valuable than one more body inside clogging the paint. We'll just have to
> play it by ear and learn by screwing up. :P
> The roll should definitely be the first look though, so we have a chance
> at any open lanes they leave us. We can always scramble if our spacing
> gets a bit screwed and we lose our kick.
>
>
> > 2. The high post stays on the weak side on the first swing, then on the
> reversal screens for the weak side point when they make their cut/drive
>
> Definitely this. Also, just to help out our post a bit, I think we should
> maybe try slightly harder to beat a soft denial on the wing than we
> usually do. We still don't want to force any risky passes, but we should
> be trying to use tools like v-cuts and screens from the wing/dribble
> handoffs
> to get the ball to the wing. Although that second one involves us not
> picking up our dribble early, which might be a problem. :P
>
> But yes, I think every reversal should default to including at least those
> two screens, unless it's clearly a bad idea.
>
> Chas
>
> On Fri, 7 Jun 2019, Tom Eitelhuber wrote:
>
> > Hi everyone,
> > Chas is definitely right that we need to have less haste and more
> "looking like you might do something" before swinging the ball. This is
> something I'll be
> > focusing on, as should we all.
> >
> > I've also been talking to Chas about this separately, with some
> additional thoughts. We could probably go on discussing it for some time,
> but the game is tomorrow
> > so I thought I'd share some ideas. I'd like to incorporate one or two
> routine screens into the offensive rotation, to get everyone a bit more
> used to setting
> > screens as a regular thing. I'd like to make it as simple as possible,
> so that even if it's not tactically optimal, it is at least more likely to
> happen.
> >
> > The two logical opportunities that fit into our standard rotation are:
> > 1. When the point passes to the wing, they screen the wing and roll
> baseline (on either side, but less important on the first swing)
> > 2. The high post stays on the weak side on the first swing, then on the
> reversal screens for the weak side point when they make their cut/drive
> >
> > For #1, it's preferable that the point cuts down on the usual angle and
> then cuts out to set the screen, rather than running directly at the wing
> after they pass,
> > but honestly the latter isn't too bad, as long as we're not doing it
> constantly. There's also the option of doing a wide dribble hand-off, if
> you feel like
> > changing it up. However you run it, the point ultimately ends up down
> low, where they normally would, and the rotation can continue.
> >
> > The wing needs to be aware of how people are moving to make the best
> play:
> > - Pass to the rolling screener (if they don't cover)
> > - Pass into the high post (if they collapse down)
> > - Drive/shoot (if there's space or a decent lane coming off the screen)
> > - Swing AFTER looking at the options (if they hedge effectively enough
> that there's no good option)
> >
> > To be clear, I don't want these to be optional steps, I'd like them to
> be the default (unless there's a really good alternative option) so that we
> actually do
> > them. Most of our "best endeavour" approaches to screening have resulted
> in very few actual screens, so I'd like to be a bit more proactive about
> it. Hope that all
> > makes sense to everyone. I'd quite like to try this on Saturday, at
> least for a handful of plays. If anyone has any questions let me know.
> >
> > Chas, if you think I've terribly misinterpreted any of your ideas, or
> have anything to add, please jump in!
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Tom
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 1:27 AM Chas Stan-Bishop <chas at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
> wrote:
> > Hey all,
> >
> > So, following up on the discussion I had with Alwyn after our last
> game,
> > some video analysis. It's from the game before last (since I don't
> have
> > the last game video yet), and I've only gone over the first
> video/~half
> > in detail, so it's not perfect. Hopefully better than nothing
> though.
> >
> > There were a total of 28 play in the clip. We fully reversed the
> ball 3
> > times, which is not great. But, as I suspected, on only _one_ of
> the 25
> > occasions where we didn't was it because a pass wasn't available.
> Even in
> > that instance, it was the weak wing that was unavailable, not
> either slot,
> > and it was because the cut to the weak side was slow (Tommo was
> posting
> > rather than cutting), and the second pass was too hasty (player was
> > completely unguarded, and never looked like driving/shooting).
> >
> > We mostly aren't swinging too slowly. We're just choosing not to
> swing at
> > all. We frequently just repeatedly bang our heads against the
> strong side
> > defence.
> >
> > Some examples:
> > 1 - The aforementioned play
> >
> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:21:07&end=00:21:20
> >
> > This is a good example of a couple of things. Note Tommo's
> defender.
> > That's a guard following Tommo all the way down to the low block
> leaving
> > a single defender guarding everything above the blue line, and 4
> defenders
> > in a line just above the restricted area. Tommo possibly thinks
> he's
> > posting up a centre, since the forward went out to the corner
> (giving us
> > an advantage), but he isn't. When the ball reverses to the slot
> (Seb),
> > he's _totally_ unguarded.
> >
> > Look at the weak side defence; it basically hasn't shifted. It has
> no
> > cause to. Seb's obvious play would be to shoot, but they're not
> worried
> > about that because a) Seb never even thinks about shooting, so no
> threat
> > there and b) they might let us have that shot anyway, if they've
> got time
> > to carefully consider.
> >
> > We could drive that, but we're unlikely to get anything at the
> basket with
> > three defenders still inside. Most of us will likely end up taking
> a
> > midrange pull-up.
> > I would argue that our two best options might well be;
> >
> > 1) Do nothing. Seriously. The defence isn't playing us, so there's
> no
> > reason to do anything until they start to shift. Continuing the
> reverse to
> > Alwyn gets us nowhere, since there's no-one on the weak wing and
> the weak
> > slot is still guarded. Until something changes, it costs us
> nothing to
> > hold the ball indefinitely and look like we're considering
> shooting.
> > They'll move eventually, just because it feels wrong not to.
> >
> > 2) Drive, with every intention of kicking the ball straight back
> out
> > again if the defence covers the drive/inside options at all. We
> can just
> > run a strong side drive and kick repeatedly, gradually shifting the
> > defence over, with the proviso that we _reverse the ball once the
> defence
> > has shifted_. We usually miss that bit. For an example of this
> nearly
> > working out, see
> >
> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:17:45&end=00:18:06
> >
> > We make a few questionable decisions here, resulting in repeated
> strong
> > side play/missing reversal (a whole other discussion), which
> causes Alwyn
> > to eventually get bored and cut from the weak slot when he's not
> supposed
> > to, screwing our spacing a bit.
> >
> > But look at what happens to the defence each time the ball gets
> passed on
> > the strong side. They gradually shift further and further across,
> > especially when Andrew takes a step in that direction. By the time
> Alwyn
> > bails, only the weak forward is paying any attention to Alwyn and
> Chris on
> > the weak side, and no-one is really in position to play solid
> defence.
> > This burns them when Tommo eventually skips it to Chris and Alwyn
> reverses
> > course for the backdoor play.
> >
> > This is better than the situation when the ball first goes back to
> the
> > Chris at the strong slot. The weak side guard has shifted across a
> bit,
> > but still has his eye on Tommo at the weak slot. Multiple people
> are still
> > watching the baseline cut.
> >
> > My point is, that we don't need to _always_ swing the ball as soon
> as we
> > touch it, in an effort to beat the defence to the weak side. They
> often
> > don't initially move much, and the more time we spend on the
> strong side
> > (as long as we look vaguely threatening), the more time we give the
> > defence to decide to shift across and begin to over-focus on our
> > strong-side action.
> >
> > The important thing is that when we _do_ swing the ball, everyone
> who
> > touches it looks threatening (to make the out of position
> defenders feel
> > like they have to play you, rather than ignoring you and returning
> to
> > their optimal zone assignments), and all our weak side players are
> in
> > position to take advantage. It's not speed that matters, it's
> timing and
> > threat/misdirection.
> >
> >
> > Returning to the original clip, if Seb fakes a shot, not only does
> it
> > potentially attract the weak guard, resulting in an Alwyn drive
> rather
> > than the mostly pointless high post entry, but it also gives Tommo
> time to
> > cut through to the weak corner, which would almost certainly draw
> the
> > weak forward out i.e. exactly what we're after.
> >
> >
> > For an example of what I was talking about regarding timing of the
> > slot-to-slot cut, see this
> >
> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:03:43&end=00:03:57
> >
> > When Seb passes to me on the wing, the strong guard's attention is
> > initially on us. He follows the cut a bit, then switches focus to
> the ball
> > on the wing. He's a little out of position. The weak side guard
> drifts
> > across and down to cover the post. But look what happens when Dave
> cuts
> > across slightly early (I contend). Dave isn't getting the ball
> right away
> > - I need to wait for Seb to get to the short corner - but the
> strong guard
> > sees Dave cut out of the corner of his eye, and shifts back to
> make sure
> > he can get there if the ball reverses. The weak guard recognises
> this, and
> > hands off responsibility before Dave even catches the ball,
> leaving him
> > time to recover to Tommo. The reversal gets up something, but not
> as much
> > as it could.
> >
> > If Dave holds off his cut for a couple of seconds, the strong
> guards
> > attention would zero in on me. I would pass to the spot as Dave
> was on the
> > move, and when he catches the ball, it would not be 100% clear
> who's
> > resposibility it is; the defence wouldn't have had time to think
> about it.
> > Dave can freeze dribble at the gap, freezing the weak guard,
> giving Tommo
> > a clearer path on his cut. Now it's not clear if the guard can
> cover
> > Tommo's cut, so the forward has to split attention between him and
> Seb.
> > Which tilts the mistake lottery heavily in our favour, and
> probably makes
> > the pass to Tommo much easier.
> >
> > This shows the second half of what I mean
> >
> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:04:19&end=00:04:25
> >
> > Tommo reverses slightly early from the wing*, but it does mean
> that Dave
> > catches on the move despite the early timing of his cut. The
> strong guard
> > has no time to adjust/recover, so the weak guard picks him up
> Dave. This
> > results in the weak forward picking up Seb on the swing
> (questionable,
> > unless he thinks Seb is lights out from 3, so I wouldn't count on
> that),
> > and we might have created some great baseline action if Seb's pass
> hadn't
> > been deflected.
> >
> >
> > *Note: I say early because there's no time to investigate the two
> man game
> > between wing and short corner. I'm okay with that on the first
> wing pass,
> > since it's mostly to draw the defence across anyway, but we
> probably want
> > to be more deliberate on the weak wing if we can get it there.
> >
> >
> > Anyway, here are some more clips of us not reversing, despite
> having the
> > option. I'll start with probably our worst decision of the game (me
> > shooting rather than a driving and dishing for a likely uncontested
> > layup), just so this email feels less like me beating up other
> people. :P
> >
> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:05:38&end=00:05:48
> >
> > And some more:
> >
> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:14:14&end=00:14:29
> >
> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:06:21&end=00:06:34
> >
> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:11:09&end=00:11:20
> >
> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:15:44&end=00:15:58
> >
> http://chas.ucc.asn.au/basketball/BasketballClipPlayer.html?v=GUyRA7YmFcA&start=00:18:59&end=00:19:07
> >
> > That'll probably do. There are more (I can list them if people
> want).
> > 14-15 of our 28 plays involved us not reversing the ball when we
> have the
> > option (not saying we should have reversed on all of them - there
> were
> > some great options in there), 6-7 involved the ball entering into
> the high
> > post early and never leaving (shot/foul/tie-up), and the remaining
> 6-8
> > were either reversals, our single missing reversal option, or a
> bit weird
> > (broken plays, early turnovers etc).
> >
> >
> >
> > So. For our next game, I think we simply focus on completing the
> reversal
> > unless we can get all the way to the bucket, or they just
> completely
> > refuse to defend us.
> >
> > I think we think of our initial wing pass as a setup pass. Wait
> for the
> > play to fully develop and the defence to shift, and only shoot or
> > agressivley seek to make a play under the above conditions
> (layup/lack of
> > defence).
> > Then fully reverse the ball, with the same provisos. I also want
> to try
> > leaving the high post weak side, ready to screen the weak guard to
> stop
> > him helping on the weak side, but we can talk about that at the
> game.
> > Then I want to actually play a bit on wing. Seriously think about
> a 3,
> > especially if you are Tommo or Alwyn. Wait for the cut to reach the
> > short corner and see if you can safely get it there. Look at the
> two man
> > game between short corner and wing - screens and kickouts. Look at
> the
> > high post _now_, rather than before we've even hit one wing. Play
> for a
> > bit. _Then_ swing it and try again on the other side.
> >
> > TLDR; We need to reverse the ball more often, but with less
> haste/panic.
> >
> > Probably enough wall of text. Hope it made some degree of sense - I
> > haven't been sleeping great, so it might all be nonsense :P. Feel
> free to
> > disagree/let me know your thoughts.
> >
> > Chas
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Basketball at ucc.asn.au
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> >
> >
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