[committee] (in)Validity of the OGM on 28th of Jan 2017
Andrew Adamson
bob at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au
Thu Jan 26 14:18:12 AWST 2017
I forgot to mention: the current meeting date was set when we thought that
tenancy would actually be allocating us the room we're going for, since
the decision to apply for that room had never been presented to the club
members. In short, it was planned as such to give us the maximum amount of
time to appeal the decision in the case where members chucked a fit. But
we no longer need to do that, and time is on our side to apply for the
room on our own terms.
Andrew Adamson
bob at ucc.asn.au
|"If you can't beat them, join them, and then beat them." |
| ---Peter's Laws |
On Thu, 26 Jan 2017, Andrew Adamson wrote:
> Counter point: we don't have any actual costings on how much power,
> network, and renovations will cost us. Previous discussions about clubroom
> moves were based on different rooms - ergo different costs and benefits.
> The costs are non-trivial. This morning I emailed UWA FM to organise a
> meeting to work these things out, since committee hasn't, but unless that
> magically happens this Friday (doubtful), we will be going into a general
> meeting with very little information. And to what end? We have everything
> to gain and nothing to lose by delaying the meeting.
>
> Andrew Adamson
> bob at ucc.asn.au
>
> |"If you can't beat them, join them, and then beat them." |
> | ---Peter's Laws |
>
> On Thu, 26 Jan 2017, Jeremy Cole wrote:
>
> > I don't disagree on the timing of the meeting, it has been a short fuse on getting this all together so we can get the wheels in motion. It's a bit sub-optimal on the notice portion of our constitutional requirements.
> >
> > However the idea that a clubroom move has not been a topic that members can discuss for more than enough time is an over reach. There have been arguments in committee meeting about this since before Committee break last year. Those mentions have been minuted and sent to both the relevant mail lists and posted on Facebook. There have been more than a few heated discussions on those Facebook posts.
> >
> > The motions put allow us to start submissions to SRC and say we have money on the table. Past that we've asked that the decision be reaffirmed at the AGM in March so we can know for sure what SRC will have to say and formalise another round of consultation.
> >
> > I understand the worry that people have about 'gerrymandering' the meeting, but our membership is vast and varied. Catering to the ideas of time sensitivity and full access of the membership makes a 'perfect' meeting time impossible.
> >
> > If there is genuine opinion that the financial and general detail of the motion and the business case are sub-par, then I think a physical meeting should come to that conclusion.
> >
> > Jeremy Cole
> > [M12]
> >
> > > On 26 Jan 2017, at 12:44, Andrew Adamson <bob at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> wrote:
> > >
> > > I must agree with Frames' sentiments regarding the meeting notice. The
> > > rules for notice (both time period and notice method) were put in the
> > > Constitution to ensure that people had the opportunity to have a say,
> > > discuss issues before the meeting, and to prevent hijacks of the club by
> > > stealth meetings. As such, for this particular issue, I don't think people
> > > have had sufficient say, and there are a number of ways the business case
> > > could be improved (more emails to follow regarding that).
> > >
> > > On the other hand, I don't think it is reasonable to expect general
> > > meetings to only happen during semester, since that would shackle us from
> > > doing productive things for five months of the year, and would conflict
> > > with other requirements in the case of a vacant committee position. Having
> > > it on a weekend is not problematic in my opinion - it's no different to
> > > the times we ask our door members to attend cleanups. Also, in this
> > > particular case, the issue *is* time sensitive, because the new room will
> > > not be available indefinitely, and students suddenly get too busy to deal
> > > with such issues when semester starts.
> > >
> > > If committee were to agree, an alternate date for the meeting could be Feb
> > > 5 or 11. That would give us enough time to improve some of the details of
> > > the business case (such as costings) and make a better and more informed
> > > decision as a club.
> > >
> > > Andrew Adamson
> > > bob at ucc.asn.au
> > >
> > > |"If you can't beat them, join them, and then beat them." |
> > > | ---Peter's Laws |
> > >
> > >> On Wed, 25 Jan 2017, Frames wrote:
> > >>
> > >> This meeting is (technically) unconstitutional and thus void (in 5 ways).
> > >> This meeting was scheduled in bad faith to the member base -- or at
> > >> least without sufficient thought.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> The technical violation of the constitution was 18.2, 18.6, and 18.7.
> > >> Which require notice of the meeting,
> > >> its agenda and its list of motions to be posted on the notice board at
> > >> various dates
> > >> before the AGM. (violations 1, 2 & 3)
> > >>
> > >> Further I argue (though by section 24 it is committee's interpretation),
> > >> that it was additionally in violation of 18.2, for a second reason.
> > >> To give that exact wording:
> > >>
> > >> "18.2 The Secretary shall make *all reasonable attempts* to notify all
> > >> members using _at least_ a notice on the club
> > >> notice-board for ten days preceding the meeting and an email sent to all
> > >> addresses on the membership
> > >> register at least ten days before the date of the meeting."
> > >>
> > >> I think that it can be agree that in todays period, making a facebook
> > >> event would be part of "all reasonable attempts".
> > >> Particularly given that a lot of our members are not checking there
> > >> emails, given they are on holidays.
> > >> After all, we have had UCC events posted on facebook has been done
> > >> consistantly for several years.
> > >> (violation 4)
> > >>
> > >> As a final point, a notice of meeting must include the location of the
> > >> meeting.
> > >> The notice send by email on the 14th of Janurary only includes the time
> > >> and the date.
> > >> If one would like a source for this requirement as part of the notice of
> > >> meeting,
> > >> see Roberts Rules of Order (as referred to in section 9 of the
> > >> constutition).
> > >> If you care the check page 143 (chapter 16.B) of the Revised Rules in
> > >> Brief that is in the filing cabnet in the clubroom.
> > >> This is apparently in the full Revised Rules 11ed page 459,11,18-19, but
> > >> i've not checked.
> > >> In general you'll find this requirement to be well expressed anywhere
> > >> you look.
> > >> (violation 5)
> > >>
> > >> Now you might say "No one ever does that". But actually, you would be
> > >> surprised how often it is done.
> > >> In particular notice is almost alwys written on the whiteboard,
> > >> and most of the time the full process is followed and a printout is
> > >> attached to the door board.
> > >> and it is mostly put on facebook well in advance.
> > >> And almost always the location is included in the first email out (and
> > >> on the notice board)
> > >>
> > >> In anycase, normally I would not complain about it,
> > >> because normally the meeting is scheduled at a reasonable time,
> > >> and there is plenty of time for discussion the clubroom etc.
> > >> Everyone is around and knows what is going on.
> > >> That is not the case for this meeting.
> > >>
> > >> I feel the meeting was scheduled improperly, and with poor consideration.
> > >> Having a meeting scheduled for a difficult time reeks of the NGO
> > >> equivalent of gerrymandering.
> > >> Controlling the outcome of the vote by preselecting who can and can't
> > >> attend.
> > >>
> > >> Saturday the 28th is an *awful* time to schedule an OGM.
> > >> You could hardly choose a worse time, if you tried.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> The reasons this time is inappropriate:
> > >>
> > >> - Outside of Semester (as a student club our meetings should be during
> > >> semester if possible)
> > >> - On a Weekend, in the middle of the day (When we normally have them
> > >> on week days, or at least in the evening -- so many students work
> > >> weekend days)
> > >> - Over a public holiday adjacent weekend (Thus maximizing the chance
> > >> that people will be going away)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Nothing in the agenda is pressing.
> > >> Except the election of the secretary.
> > >> And even that has a 1 month window
> > >> (And I suspect it would not be hard to rig it so that we can avoid
> > >> electing any secretary until an AGM in week 1 or 2 of semsester)
> > >>
> > >> There is no need for these things to be done before O-Day or before the AGM.
> > >>
> > >> Note that in this message I have made no reference to the core content
> > >> of the agenda,
> > >> I've barely read it myself. And have been down this road before and I
> > >> leave it to others to walk it again.
> > >> But proper procedure should be followed to allow members to properly be
> > >> able to consider the motions.
> > >> That is after all why we have these rules.
> > >>
> > >> As such, I call upon committee to void the meeting on Saturday the 28th,
> > >> and schedule a new meeting for some time after semester starts.
> > >> Potentially separately to the AGM (since that does go long, it is true.)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Kind Regards
> > >> [*OX]
> > >> Wheel Member
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> List Archives: http://lists.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/pipermail/committee
> > >>
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