[committee] EFTPOS / Payment gateway options for UCC

[bob at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au]

A couple of things:

- Given we don't know how much use it will get, and could end up sitting 
unused for some time, I think a plan that targets no monthly fees is a 
good idea. Then it only costs us when we use it.

- I am not sure which problem you are trying to solve - is there anyone 
unable to currently add money to their accounts? Given we will always have 
some cash to handle, and accounts have to be reconciled anyway, will this 
actually make the treasurers job easier? Will having an eftpos machine 
actually make the process faster (especially if a door member still has to 
add the funds)?

- I've heard good things about square. You see a lot of street food 
vendors using it, which suggests it is cheap and easy to use, in addition 
to being similar purchase amounts to UCCs.

- I don't care whether you get a tablet or a phone, but I 100% think you 
should get a permanent security-style mount for it, so it can't be 
misplaced/stolen, and can remain charged. Then people will always know 
where to find it in the clubroom and it can remain always-on. Stick the 
reader to the side of the mount or something, for the same reasons.

- Have you considered:
	- any training required (for door members)
	- any potential for abuse if it's left available in the clubroom
	- the process by which money is added to accounts (will this be 
automated, or manually done by door members?)
	- how receipts might work - square doesn't appear to have a 
receipt printer, so how can door members verify a transaction has gone 
through?
	- how refunds might work?

Andrew Adamson
bob at ucc.asn.au

|"If you can't beat them, join them, and then beat them."                |
| ---Peter's Laws                                                        |

On Sun, 13 May 2018, Felix von Perger wrote:

> 
> Hi!
> 
> Westpac does have a seasonal EFTPOS arrangement, but that's only for short periods so I didn't look into that. Haven't looked far into Suncorp yet, but they seem
> to have physical branches in Perth so they might require someone to actually go there in person, which would be a problem. I've sent an enquiry in any case.
> 
> For a standalone EFTPOS terminal, Westpac charges $55+ per month (way too much) and the cheapest I could find elsewhere was around $24/month + per-transaction
> charges. Another option could have been Westpac Genie (similar to the other options discussed) but that is not available to us as we are an incorporated
> association.
> 
> Sure, getting it set up and working could be a pain. AFAIK we don't have anything lying around that already has Android installed and getting a Pi set up would
> be a pain (assuming the app(s) were even compatible with it). Additional costs in case we need to buy new equipment to make it work (aside from the card
> reader/terminal itself) but since that can be directly related to the club's aims one way or another it requires less effort to justify.
> 
> As for the transaction rates, I'm confident to say that the club can and probably will absorb them given they sit well within profit margins (so you get what you
> pay). Yes, people paying cash would theoretically be relatively disadvantaged, but card payment is generally considered more convenient and the system could be
> designed to significantly reduce the adminstrative workload.
> 
> Assuming that such a setup were to be implemented and was moderately successful, the most likely reason for it dying out (as discussed in previous meetings) was
> that it may be too much effort for new committees to update office bearer details and so on. The potential incompetence of future committees should not be a
> reason for not giving it a try, but in any case it will be run as an experiment; we don't even know if anyone will use it.
> 
> I'd be happy to have assistance with the technical side of things, although anything that does happen probably won't become interesting for at least a couple of
> weeks (when the hardware arrives and we can actually start playing with it).
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Felix von Perger
> UCC Secretary 2018
> 
> 
> On 13/05/18 18:51, Frames wrote:
>       Oh also you might want to compare to the renting a EFTPOS for westpac (we've done it before for oday), Or Suncorp (I know they cheap)
> 
> Setup is easier.
> 
> [*OX]
> 
> 
> On 13 May 2018 6:46 pm, Frames <oxinabox at ucc.asn.au> wrote:
>       Having done this before getting palpal here to work is a utter pain. It is really finicky. Like in terms of hardware, OS version, WiFi noises,
>       etc.
> I've heard square is a bit better. I've not heard of the other.
> 
> 
> In the past when people 
> wanted to put money on dispense electronically,
> They did a bank transfer to our westpac account, and included their username in the transaction description. And emailed the treasurer.
> Who manually checked the bank online.
> And then added. (Some time delay if not westpac but now days that should be lower due to the new banking rules)
> 
> Without some effort in scripting the same manual step would have to be done.
> 
> Like this is a cool idea, but setup is hellish.
> And with the fees being taken out of it is enough that most people are not going to use it, and will just go to the ATM.
> 
> If you want to do it like I'm happy to help, but sadly I don't think it is worth your time.
> 
> [*OX]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 13 May 2018 5:23 pm, Felix von Perger <frekk at ucc.asn.au> wrote:
> 
>       Dear committee subscribers,
> 
>       As you may be aware, I am pushing for UCC to accept card payments in person using some kind of card reader / EFTPOS terminal, and as a
>       part of many such deals we would also be able to accept payments through the website and over the phone. This would make it more
>       convenient for members and door members to add dispense credit, increases ease of processing signups/renewals (especially on O-day and
>       from older members) and hopefully also makes the treasurer's life easier.
> 
>       The committee is currently considering experimenting with accepting card payments and will be deciding between the providers listed below
>       at the next meeting. The primary considerations when selecting a payment provider include initial costs (including purchasing equipment)
>       and any ongoing fees / rates on transactions.
> 
>        o  Paypal (using Paypal Here to accept card payments)
>        o 
>            o  1.95% flat rate on all card transactions using the card reader
>            o  2.9% flat rate + 30c for manual entry in the app
>            o  Upfront cost of $99 to buy card reader.
>            o 
>                #  Card reader has keypad.
>            o  No ongoing / monthly fees
>            o  Web integration available; accepts payments via paypal (of course) and most credit/debit cards online.
>        o  Square
>        o 
>            o  1.9% flat rate on card transactions (contactless and chip + PIN)
>            o  2.2% flat rate with manual entry
>            o  $59 upfront to buy card reader (can get it at Officeworks)
>            o 
>                #  Card reader doesn't seem to have a keypad. Unsure how this works with payments requiring PIN code to be entered.
>            o  No ongoing / monthly fees
>            o  Web integration & mobile API available, supports invoicing
>        o  Mint Payments
>        o 
>            o  1% flat rate on all transactions (card, manual, entered online, etc)
>            o  $300 upfront to buy card reader
>            o 
>                #  Rather expensive but this was offered as an alternative to $25/month ($300 is equivalent to one year of hire)
>                #  Card reader has a keypad.
>            o  Not for profit / charity rates are available (hence low flat rates)
>            o  No ongoing / monthly fees
>            o  Based in Australia, office in NSW.
>            o  Web integration and an API are available, supports over-the-phone payments & invoicing
> 
>       Unfortunately, the limitation of all of the above options is that they all require an Android / iOS device with the app installed to
>       connect to the card reader device.
> 
>       Technically, the club could either purchase a cheap Android device spefically for the purpose of taking payments or set up a Raspberry Pi
>       with android, permanently installed somewhere convenient in the clubroom. The implementation specific details are unclear at the moment
>       but once a decision has been made it will be worked out.
> 
>       Regardless of what is decided upon, some kind of Android based solution will be implemented and configured appropriately so that door
>       members can take payments using the app / card reader for dispense topups. APIs for each provider may allow custom apps to interface with
>       the reader (not something I've looked into in depth), which could lead into a number of different projects.
> 
>       If you have any feedback regarding the above, please let us know by replying to this email.
> 
>       Regards,
> 
>       Felix von Perger
>       UCC Secretary 2018
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>