[tech] Wheel/Tech Meeting Minutes 9/06/16
Frames
oxinabox at ucc.asn.au
Thu Jun 9 21:29:58 AWST 2016
Action Items:
-----------------
- [TBB] ZFS/Molmol, investigate via livecd
- [AJT] Samba/LDAP 4, with DAA's help hopefully. Possibly organise a
day to have serveral people come in.
- [*OX] Investigate Archieving options
- Committee: Organise a day, in september not on a cleanup, when people
who care, can come and help throw stuff out.
- TPG workout what is going on the Tech Contacts at the Uni.
- MSH Setup a wireless WAN, if he wants. Or not
Wheel/Tech Meeting Minutes
===============
**Date: 2016/06/09**
#### Attending:
Wheel: [*OX], [BOB], [TPG], [MSH],[SJH], [BG3], [NTU]
Wheel&Committee: [TBB],
Guests: [CAT], [AJT], [LDT],
#### Apologies:
[MTL], [MRD], [ZAR], [DAA]
#### Absent
[JMA]
**Meeting Opened: 19:02pm Frames time**
Wheel Song
-----------------
Was sung.
Molmol and ZFS
-------
NTU: It is going down so often noone will notice if we takje it down
BG3: How often
TPG: Once a weekish
TPG: Windows will fall back to cahce if we turn it off.
MSH: We can test it for example with debain
BOB: It causes a particular problem with VMs, especially ones that don't
come up cleanly like Koha.
BOB: We shouold be jumping on this problem it is the biggest impact on users
BOB: DAA said that we might need the check some flags.
MSH: DAA, I think, has now checked those and they are fine.
BOB: Suggests that TBB solves this, as a current student who is wheel
member.
TBB: Will look at after exam.
General conclusion is to test it on a LiveCD/USB.
With existing ZFS volumes.
LDAP/Samba4.
--------
MSH: have a look at FreeeIPA, it is open source beingused commercially
NTU: I don;t think this has changes: if you want modern windows either
uses Microsoft ActiveDirectory, Or use Samba4 -- which has to use it's
own LDAP.
*OX: If we did ActiveDictory we would need to use its LDAP
TPG: Nah you can move it to another domain
BOB: I talked to DAA on the way he has a test set up that is working
with the windows, but not the linux.
NTU/TPG/BOB: we would need to sync samba and LDAP
BOB: This is going to be a lot easier now we have a clubroom SOE, so it
is just mint and debian.
*OX: Surely that [syncing] is the wrong way, samba brand name purpose is
networking windows and linux
BOB: Well no, we should be able to do it correctly, with linux binding
to SAMBA
NTU: or with linux connecting to LDAP connecting the Samba
AJT: I'm interested not sure I have the know-how.
*OX: Really it is mostly about talking to DAA
MSH: and IRC.
BOB: I, and I think also DAA, would rather be teaching people than
solving them.
*OX: So project for during the holidays. Shall we set a date to have a
group come and have a hack at it.
BOB: Start of July -- before camp.
SJH: Please don't break mail
MSH: Turn off postfix before breaking things, so mail bounces.
Passwords
--------------
BOB: when we break LDAP we may have have to change passwords which is
good, because we can implement password policy
TPG: Run a 30 sec jack the ripper each change
BOB: we now have UCCPASS, no more sharing passwords
General discussion that pass seems to be dumping to the main screen
buffer -- so shows in roleback
General discussion that that 2FA for sudo etc would be cool.
*OX: that would be cool, if nayone wants to set it up
MSH: Too hard except sudo, which is easy
Getting rid of 1 shelf worth of stuff
--------
BOB: It is hard to know what is worth keeping until you know what they are.
TPG: We could have got rid of the ARM 2 and that is great.
*OX: But it would have been fine if we had done it before
BOB: What would the extra space be used for.
*OX: Another desk of computers
BOB: Where would we put the couch
*OX: Get rid of it, we are not the university couch club.
#### Things that can go
- Disk drive box, except the floppy drives
- Cat5 box (not cat 6 box) (briefly check the boxes for overlap)
- Get rid of older IEC.
- Heat sinks and fans get rid of
- PC Parts box (Graphics card, MBs), but not PC bits
- All the rails
- Bubble wrap / but not all the static bags.
- Most of the keyboards (keep like 2 PS2)
- Most of the mice
#### To check it:
- Throw out most of the older Plugs/transformers
- check with multimeter
- Also throw out the heavy ones -- they are not switch mode
MSH: Is anyone motivated to get ri
*OX: Committee Really wants to
TPG: The weight of committee is games, but Oscare is getting better
*OX: Oscar is really skinny
...
If we don't guide this we it will be done to us.
Some discussion about stacking the shelves.
Vertically, above each other.
- Cam Lock Enters: ooooh is this a wheel meeting? Can someone fix my account
- Wheel: **Later**
- Cam Lock Leaves
[SJH] and [MSH] depart.
General discussion: We need to before throwing out, put in pile photo
and organise so people can check it. and so we can show how much we got
rid of so next year no-one suggest we need to get rid of stuff.
NTU: A lot of boxes can be consolidated.
BOB we need new boxes, 4 new ones possiobly more to get matching
NTU: I suggest the Masters ones, Black and shock resistant
BOB: I wouldn't worry too much, these havce lasted well.
We suggest a throw out day,
in September.
BOB will attend, and others.
Anyone who cares enough.
Archieving
------
- top shelf archive it,
*OX: things like early minutes, the Batty might take it. Really UWA
should be willing to take it.
General discussion about archive.
BOB: We want to give it to some to get someone to digitialise it.
*OX: I will look into our options.
*OX: So much stuff is online, someone has digitialise a lot of the
manuals already
NTU: Computing museum may take some of it again.
BOB: It won't happen til we out out of space
NTU: We are out of space
Desktops
---------
TPG: Oscar brought this up, but idk who's idea orginally. Idea that we
were going to set something up up that was netboot into linux. SO
everyone will run windows, but then be able to boot into linux
TPG: I don;'t thionk it is going too work great
General concensus: it did not workout great last time with meersau.
BOB: talks about running windows in VM boxed.
*OX: request for census on net booting linux
BOB: please no
NTU: It would be good to see setup, but not move to it now.
NTU: Done right it cost us nothing
BOB: But you would have to custom enviroment for right drivers
NTU: It works for live CD
BOB: IT can work well but it did not work well historically.
NTU: No one is volunteering
BOB: Even if they were I would try and talk them out out of it
NTU: I would suggest to add it.
*Annoying Music Occurs*
TPG: Blames Cam Locke for putting on bad music, based logs.
BOB: He was the one who wanted his account fixed right
Opinion on Machine room move/rebuild
---------
TPG: Not feasibile because access to the room (Can we get ownership of
it, really?). Very little power, to run tings
BG3: Is that taking into account the new power upgrade
TPG: I think there is now 3 phase in there, but that suggest that they
care about the room, so makes it less likely for use to find.
Someone need to go look check if the 3 phase is 5 wire, cos then we can
break it out and have plenty of power.
BOB: Maybe slow moving a few things in a time. May not need cooling
BG3: 16A, 16A,10A Circuits, from looking at the breakerbox
TPG: Maybe that was a 15A socket not 3 phase
BOB: if we are exhasting the power, then we have already exeeded heat
capacity.
*OX: SO we power is no issue, but heat is.
**General Agreement**
We are infavour of move, given we can maintain access.
TPG: Which is unlikely.
BOB: Clubroom move. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA
### Rebuild
BOB: Get rid of bench move racks against wall, have the size
General Agreement that we would like this
NTU: I'ld like to see a pro and cons.
NTU: the first step to just getting rid of the room would be to get rid
of the doors and put all aout machines in a lock rack.
BOB: *talks about bounding a loft* Issue is not building a loft that is
strong, issue is the strength of our current floor and walls.
Wireless WAN
----------
MSH's idea
BG3: approve, I'll help if he wants
TPG: I am all for getting us connected
NTU: do we need an antena
TPG: There is a a node at QE3.
TPG: MSH sounded like he was gonna do it and just wanted permisson.
TPG: I see no problem so long as it doesn't bork anything.
Some discussion on what 10.*.*.* ranges are used. We may need to do NATTING.
NTU: this may mean buying stuff.
TPG: if MSH is provinging it ...
NTU: We used to worry about AARNET complaining
TPG: No issue, so long as we only expost particular services via
Freenet. (No internet)
*OX: Do we want to encourage the club to buy hardware
TPG: Nah let MSH do it, and if we keep it the club can buy it off him later.
Investigate status of UWA subnet contacts.
------------
*OX: TPG to investigate
TPG: I have noidea where to start
BOB: Start by asking Reaps who to talk to.
IPv6 issues?
--------
BOB: What IPv6 issues?
TPG: idk Just wrote that down. Comssa seems to be havign trouble idk.
New Wheel Members
------
*Wheel members leave room*
Many people considered.
Of those 4 were selected, for which the 5 people present uanionously
in favour.
[ADJ] added as currently present at meeting, (subject to no objections,
in next to days from list)
3 further names sent to the list for further consult.
See wheel at ucc mailing list.
General Business
------------
OX: Someone (NTU) mentioned something like Asking wheel member to retire.
NTU: Remove people who haven't used UCC pass.
NTU: We have all tese people and we want to add new ones.
BOB : if they are current (paid/life) members let them stay.
TPG: We have a script for that. But that said we should be removing
root keys for locked accounts.
*OX: called for vote on asking wheel members to retire. Motion fails
for lack of second.
**Meeting closed 21:09pm Frames time**
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Action Items:
-----------------
- [TBB] ZFS/Molmol, investigate via livecd
- [AJT] Samba/LDAP 4, with DAA's help hopefully. Possibly organise a day to have serveral people come in.
- [*OX] Investigate Archieving options
- Committee: Organise a day, in september not on a cleanup, when people who care, can come and help throw stuff out.
- TPG workout what is going on the Tech Contacts at the Uni.
- MSH Setup a wireless WAN, if he wants. Or not
Wheel/Tech Meeting Minutes
===============
**Date: 2016/06/09**
#### Attending:
Wheel: [*OX], [BOB], [TPG], [MSH],[SJH], [BG3], [NTU]
Wheel&Committee: [TBB],
Guests: [CAT], [AJT], [LDT],
#### Apologies:
[MTL], [MRD], [ZAR], [DAA]
#### Absent
[JMA]
**Meeting Opened: 19:02pm Frames time**
Wheel Song
-----------------
Was sung.
Molmol and ZFS
-------
NTU: It is going down so often noone will notice if we takje it down
BG3: How often
TPG: Once a weekish
TPG: Windows will fall back to cahce if we turn it off.
MSH: We can test it for example with debain
BOB: It causes a particular problem with VMs, especially ones that don't come up cleanly like Koha.
BOB: We shouold be jumping on this problem it is the biggest impact on users
BOB: DAA said that we might need the check some flags.
MSH: DAA, I think, has now checked those and they are fine.
BOB: Suggests that TBB solves this, as a current student who is wheel member.
TBB: Will look at after exam.
General conclusion is to test it on a LiveCD/USB.
With existing ZFS volumes.
LDAP/Samba4.
--------
MSH: have a look at FreeeIPA, it is open source beingused commercially
NTU: I don;t think this has changes: if you want modern windows either uses Microsoft ActiveDirectory, Or use Samba4 -- which has to use it's own LDAP.
*OX: If we did ActiveDictory we would need to use its LDAP
TPG: Nah you can move it to another domain
BOB: I talked to DAA on the way he has a test set up that is working with the windows, but not the linux.
NTU/TPG/BOB: we would need to sync samba and LDAP
BOB: This is going to be a lot easier now we have a clubroom SOE, so it is just mint and debian.
*OX: Surely that [syncing] is the wrong way, samba brand name purpose is networking windows and linux
BOB: Well no, we should be able to do it correctly, with linux binding to SAMBA
NTU: or with linux connecting to LDAP connecting the Samba
AJT: I'm interested not sure I have the know-how.
*OX: Really it is mostly about talking to DAA
MSH: and IRC.
BOB: I, and I think also DAA, would rather be teaching people than solving them.
*OX: So project for during the holidays. Shall we set a date to have a group come and have a hack at it.
BOB: Start of July -- before camp.
SJH: Please don't break mail
MSH: Turn off postfix before breaking things, so mail bounces.
Passwords
--------------
BOB: when we break LDAP we may have have to change passwords which is good, because we can implement password policy
TPG: Run a 30 sec jack the ripper each change
BOB: we now have UCCPASS, no more sharing passwords
General discussion that pass seems to be dumping to the main screen buffer -- so shows in roleback
General discussion that that 2FA for sudo etc would be cool.
*OX: that would be cool, if nayone wants to set it up
MSH: Too hard except sudo, which is easy
Getting rid of 1 shelf worth of stuff
--------
BOB: It is hard to know what is worth keeping until you know what they are.
TPG: We could have got rid of the ARM 2 and that is great.
*OX: But it would have been fine if we had done it before
BOB: What would the extra space be used for.
*OX: Another desk of computers
BOB: Where would we put the couch
*OX: Get rid of it, we are not the university couch club.
#### Things that can go
- Disk drive box, except the floppy drives
- Cat5 box (not cat 6 box) (briefly check the boxes for overlap)
- Get rid of older IEC.
- Heat sinks and fans get rid of
- PC Parts box (Graphics card, MBs), but not PC bits
- All the rails
- Bubble wrap / but not all the static bags.
- Most of the keyboards (keep like 2 PS2)
- Most of the mice
#### To check it:
- Throw out most of the older Plugs/transformers
- check with multimeter
- Also throw out the heavy ones -- they are not switch mode
MSH: Is anyone motivated to get ri
*OX: Committee Really wants to
TPG: The weight of committee is games, but Oscare is getting better
*OX: Oscar is really skinny
...
If we don't guide this we it will be done to us.
Some discussion about stacking the shelves.
Vertically, above each other.
- Cam Lock Enters: ooooh is this a wheel meeting? Can someone fix my account
- Wheel: **Later**
- Cam Lock Leaves
[SJH] and [MSH] depart.
General discussion: We need to before throwing out, put in pile photo and organise so people can check it. and so we can show how much we got rid of so next year no-one suggest we need to get rid of stuff.
NTU: A lot of boxes can be consolidated.
BOB we need new boxes, 4 new ones possiobly more to get matching
NTU: I suggest the Masters ones, Black and shock resistant
BOB: I wouldn't worry too much, these havce lasted well.
We suggest a throw out day,
in September.
BOB will attend, and others.
Anyone who cares enough.
Archieving
------
- top shelf archive it,
*OX: things like early minutes, the Batty might take it. Really UWA should be willing to take it.
General discussion about archive.
BOB: We want to give it to some to get someone to digitialise it.
*OX: I will look into our options.
*OX: So much stuff is online, someone has digitialise a lot of the manuals already
NTU: Computing museum may take some of it again.
BOB: It won't happen til we out out of space
NTU: We are out of space
Desktops
---------
TPG: Oscar brought this up, but idk who's idea orginally. Idea that we were going to set something up up that was netboot into linux. SO everyone will run windows, but then be able to boot into linux
TPG: I don;'t thionk it is going too work great
General concensus: it did not workout great last time with meersau.
BOB: talks about running windows in VM boxed.
*OX: request for census on net booting linux
BOB: please no
NTU: It would be good to see setup, but not move to it now.
NTU: Done right it cost us nothing
BOB: But you would have to custom enviroment for right drivers
NTU: It works for live CD
BOB: IT can work well but it did not work well historically.
NTU: No one is volunteering
BOB: Even if they were I would try and talk them out out of it
NTU: I would suggest to add it.
*Annoying Music Occurs*
TPG: Blames Cam Locke for putting on bad music, based logs.
BOB: He was the one who wanted his account fixed right
Opinion on Machine room move/rebuild
---------
TPG: Not feasibile because access to the room (Can we get ownership of it, really?). Very little power, to run tings
BG3: Is that taking into account the new power upgrade
TPG: I think there is now 3 phase in there, but that suggest that they care about the room, so makes it less likely for use to find.
Someone need to go look check if the 3 phase is 5 wire, cos then we can break it out and have plenty of power.
BOB: Maybe slow moving a few things in a time. May not need cooling
BG3: 16A, 16A,10A Circuits, from looking at the breakerbox
TPG: Maybe that was a 15A socket not 3 phase
BOB: if we are exhasting the power, then we have already exeeded heat capacity.
*OX: SO we power is no issue, but heat is.
**General Agreement**
We are infavour of move, given we can maintain access.
TPG: Which is unlikely.
BOB: Clubroom move. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA
### Rebuild
BOB: Get rid of bench move racks against wall, have the size
General Agreement that we would like this
NTU: I'ld like to see a pro and cons.
NTU: the first step to just getting rid of the room would be to get rid of the doors and put all aout machines in a lock rack.
BOB: *talks about bounding a loft* Issue is not building a loft that is strong, issue is the strength of our current floor and walls.
Wireless WAN
----------
MSH's idea
BG3: approve, I'll help if he wants
TPG: I am all for getting us connected
NTU: do we need an antena
TPG: There is a a node at QE3.
TPG: MSH sounded like he was gonna do it and just wanted permisson.
TPG: I see no problem so long as it doesn't bork anything.
Some discussion on what 10.*.*.* ranges are used. We may need to do NATTING.
NTU: this may mean buying stuff.
TPG: if MSH is provinging it ...
NTU: We used to worry about AARNET complaining
TPG: No issue, so long as we only expost particular services via Freenet. (No internet)
*OX: Do we want to encourage the club to buy hardware
TPG: Nah let MSH do it, and if we keep it the club can buy it off him later.
Investigate status of UWA subnet contacts.
------------
*OX: TPG to investigate
TPG: I have noidea where to start
BOB: Start by asking Reaps who to talk to.
IPv6 issues?
--------
BOB: What IPv6 issues?
TPG: idk Just wrote that down. Comssa seems to be havign trouble idk.
New Wheel Members
------
*Wheel members leave room*
Many people considered.
Of those 4 were selected, for which the 5 people present uanionously in favour.
[ADJ] added as currently present at meeting, (subject to no objections, in next to days from list)
3 further names sent to the list for further consult.
See wheel at ucc mailing list.
General Business
------------
OX: Someone (NTU) mentioned something like Asking wheel member to retire.
NTU: Remove people who haven't used UCC pass.
NTU: We have all tese people and we want to add new ones.
BOB : if they are current (paid/life) members let them stay.
TPG: We have a script for that. But that said we should be removing root keys for locked accounts.
*OX: called for vote on asking wheel members to retire. Motion fails for lack of second.
**Meeting closed 21:09pm Frames time**
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