[committee] Triforce Ball Proposal Document
Frames
oxinabox at ucc.asn.au
Sun Dec 8 20:35:44 AWST 2013
Discussion, Unigames Committee is having about CH Ball
Since The discussion on the UCC lists is going to be similar, I will
save everyone some time,
and promote debate.
The important points are:
*Need 165 Attendee's*
For this to break even we need 165 guests. That is more than teracon,
wizard camp and ucc camp combined. The ticket price is going to be
significantly higher than any of the those events. I question if we can
pull this off.
Cheaper, Less High Class options should be considered.
For sake of reference I threw together another option if we were to
"build our own" rather than buying a turn key solution.
These are just things i could quickly find the price for online:
if we were to rent the Perth Town Hall, it would be about $1320.75, for
6 hours for 100 People
that is including security guard, table's being set up and put away, but
not including food or booze.
Throw an extra $2000 for booze (that is 20 cartons of beer/cider and 30
bottles of wine)
Throw an extra $1500 for light catering (hot fingerfood, i priced from
Miss Maud's, tghis would be a ton).
Throw $600 for a DJ/sound gear hire.
Rounding up that is $5500. (Vs $21,000 at Hilton)
So selling tickets for $85 each to get a $3000 profit. (Vs $130 at the
Hilton)
I have attached the full transcipt below.
My apologies for the aweful HTML email.
[*OX]
UCC Wheel Member
Unigames IPP
Grumpy Old Dude
This is a copy of the discussion about a propopsed CH ball,
from the Unigames Committee Facebook.
(Accurate to 8:34PM today, relitive timestamps inconsistant.)
<https://www.facebook.com/rowan.ashwin>
Rowan Ashwin
<https://www.facebook.com/rowan.ashwin?hc_location=stream>
So had a meeting at the Hilton with regards to the Triforce
Ball. In a one sentence summary, it was productive, we are
getting an awesome deal, and the staff at seem pretty good at
working with students.
There are heaps of details that we have decided on, which I
can talk about in the meeting if you so wish, but considering
our financial situation (which is decent but nowhere near the
other two clubs) I suggested that we split the deposit/costs
20% Unigames, and 40% each for the two other clubs. Keep in
mind, paying 20% of costs means 20% of profits (though profits
will not be immense). This is the Lower risk/lower reward option.
Ultimately what this means for Unigames in the short term is a
$1000 deposit before the 19th of Dec. I highly recommend
taking this course of action. Like seriously this better pass
at the next meeting.
Speaking of which, organise Uncharitable Vigil/ get event page
up ASAP plz.
And I finish work on Monday at 5:30... but will come try and
make it to uni as soon as possible after.
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· 6 December at 16:01
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* Seen by 8
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<https://www.facebook.com/rowan.ashwin>
Rowan Ashwin <https://www.facebook.com/rowan.ashwin>I suppose I'll
elaborate a bit (since I won't be there at the start of the meeting...)
In total the ball will cost 26,055. including a 5000 bond which is
refundable (ie net cost will be 21,055). OUR club will need to
deposit 1k now, and another 1.4k next year before we start ticket
sales. We will very likely get a lion nathan grant from guild to
help out. After ticket sales start we should be fine for money. In
the last two years only 1 ball has ever lost part of their deposit
(for damages) but we are budgeting such that should we have our full
deposit returned, we will gain a significant profit (about $3000
between the clubs, ie Unigames will get about $600).
We are currently planning on selling tickets for $130 each, or $134
if bought online...
If you have ANY more questions, we discussed a huge amount of
details at the meeting (like half the organization has already been
done) Please try to bring up questions on fb BEFORE the meeting on
Monday so that we don't have to talk about it for ages/can spend
more time on uncharitable vigil.
6 December at 17:11
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<https://www.facebook.com/Xyrrath>
Ryan Xyrrath Nicholson <https://www.facebook.com/Xyrrath>wait, this
is actually a thing?
6 December at 18:06
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<https://www.facebook.com/rowan.ashwin>
Rowan Ashwin <https://www.facebook.com/rowan.ashwin>Yes Ryan, this
is indeed a thing.
6 December at 18:12
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<https://www.facebook.com/Xyrrath>
Ryan Xyrrath Nicholson <https://www.facebook.com/Xyrrath>disgusting
6 December at 18:12
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<https://www.facebook.com/rowan.ashwin>
Rowan Ashwin <https://www.facebook.com/rowan.ashwin>(Oh yeah I
should probably mention that the date we are planning on booking for
is the 6/9/2014
6 December at 18:12
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<https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.vanburen.5>
Jonathan Van Buren <https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.vanburen.5>So
we are investing 2.4k for a $600 profit?
6 December at 21:00
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<https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.vanburen.5>
Jonathan Van Buren
<https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.vanburen.5>What date do we expect
returns?
6 December at 21:01
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<https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.vanburen.5>
Jonathan Van Buren <https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.vanburen.5>How
many people need to attend to ensure we cover the costs?
6 December at 21:02
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<https://www.facebook.com/rowan.ashwin>
Rowan Ashwin <https://www.facebook.com/rowan.ashwin>a) Yes, though
not only is it the best thing we could be doing with our money, but
its also providing a service to members.
b) we plan to start closed ticket sales in the last week of semester
one, so returns should start then (and continue over the winter
break) Ticket sales then open up to general public come the start of
semester 2.
c) We are budgeting for 180 people, though we have room for 200 (or
maybe even more) to attend should demand be larger then we expect.
We have discussed ALOT of plans with regards to hitting this target
of 180. (minimum number of attendees to cover costs will vary, as
costs are not entirely set in stone, but so long as we get above 165
I believe we will break even.)
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<https://www.facebook.com/oxinabox>
Lyndon 'Frames' White <https://www.facebook.com/oxinabox>165
attendee's is pretty unlikely.
165 people makes this bigger than wizard camp, UCC camp and Teracon
combined. and more expensive ticket price than any one of them.
We had allot of people have issues paying for Wizard Camp because it
was too expensive.
We didn't get that attendance at charity vigil,
and charity vigil is cheaper.
One could argue that people will bring partners to this, but people
did to charity vigil as well.
We are not investing in a 20% share of the profit, we are investing
in a 20% share of the loss.
The Hilton is, as I've said before, are really dumb venue.
It is far too upscale and is priced like it.
If we want to do this at all, we should go for something far lower
key, this first time, and if it works out, then we can do something
better next year.
17 hours ago
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<https://www.facebook.com/oxinabox>
Lyndon 'Frames' White <https://www.facebook.com/oxinabox>As a
comparison, if we were to rent the Perth Town Hall,
it would be about $1320.75, for 6 hours for 100 People
that is including security guard, table's being set up and put away,
but not including food or booze.
Throw an extra $2000 for booze (that is 20 cartons of beer/cider and
30 bottles of wine)
Throw an extra $1500 for light catering (hot fingerfood, i priced
from Miss Maud's, tghis would be a ton).
Throw $600 for a DJ/sound gear hire.
Rounding up that is $5500. (Vs $21,000 at Hilton)
This would be a less high key even than something at the hilton, but
it would still be pretty fancy.
It is the Perth Town Hall, for goodness sake.
So selling tickets for $85 each to get a $3000 profit.
I'm not saying the town hall is the best place, but there are
cheaper, places that the bleeding Hilton. This price is just what i
could look up on short notice, without getting quotes.
17 hours ago
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<https://www.facebook.com/benjamin.armstrong.9404>
Benjamin Armstrong
<https://www.facebook.com/benjamin.armstrong.9404>It doesn't help
that it's directly competing with Wizard Camp/Terracon/UCC camp for
the 'expensive Cameron hall event' slot. People aren't going to be
willing to fork out large amounts of money to attend multiple of
these events within a relatively short time frame, particularly the
freshers.
As a result, I don't believe that we will reasonably be able to sell
more tickets than Terracon can, and at a higher price too. Sure, it
has some novelty in being the unique 'Cameron Ball', but I'd wager
that this would turn more people away than attract them.
In addition, even if we do manage to break even, I would expect to
see people much less willing to attend the other expensive events as
they've already spent so much. If it came down to people deciding
only to attend one camp and the ball, I would not expect a strong
showing at Wizard Camp.
tl;dr - I still think the ball is a bad idea and I feel that it
directly competes with future Unigames events.
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<https://www.facebook.com/rowan.ashwin>
Rowan Ashwin <https://www.facebook.com/rowan.ashwin>Eugh, I suppose
its my job to reply to these complaints. The way I see it there are
3 big complaints: a) doubt that we will reach the numbers required,
b) competition with other events and c) less expensive alternatives
would be preferable.
a) This isthe most legit complaint imo and it ultimately gets broken
down into two parts. One is that we don't get enough people full
stop, which I believe won't happen. There is already serious
expressed interest in 1-2 tables for curtins Sci-Fi club (who might
be considering running their own) It would be easy as pie for me to
sell 1-2 tables worth of tickets to guild hacks. IMO science union
would probs grab a table, if tickets go on general sale I think
there would be at least a few more tables sold to people who REALLY
want balls but are missing out on them (which is actually quite a
large group outside of cameron hall). Then keep in mind that people
in Cameron Hall will be bringing +1's and friends (moreso then an
event like Terracon) and we only need to sell 16-17 tables to break
even (pretty sure Unigames could get at least 1, UCC get at least 1
or 2 and Unisfa already would be looking at 5-6 tables.)
The second part of this complaint is that the event will be flooded
with people who aren't even a part of the clubs/non-members... this
is also a legit complaint though we will try as best in presales to
make sure EVERYONE who wants to go amongst the clubs can, and hey,
if the night is successful we may even get more members out of the
event.
b) This answer should also help the case for a) since it implies
increased demand for tickets. Terracon Will Not Be Happening Next
Year. This means there will be No competition with terracon (though
still competition with UCC camp/ Unigames Camp) Terracon is by FAR
the largest, and a lot of the people who normally go to it would
love something else to try out/replace the event with. I do see the
complaint about competition with our own events, but this year is
the BEST year for it (as terracon is very likely to come back in
2015). Also when it comes down to it, if we are talking about it
being a bad thing that we run too many events and that they are
interfering with one another it seems a little self defeating Like
one way of looking at this is that it shows Unigames as a club
capable of running well organized events of any description, which
makes us MORE appealing, not less. A busy timetable can be a good thing.
c) We have looked into some less expensive alternatives, but
ultimately we decided amongst the ball committee (/Kate strongly
pressed for) a fancier ball. Trust me the Hilton is REALLY NICE.
Especially for the price we are getting it. Organizing seperate
catering, completely organizing our own decorations (to the point
where a town hall looks respectable) as well as our own
lights/music, bartenders/open bar, dance floor, security and other
staff is a nightmarish responsibility, and if anything goes wrong we
are to blame. The Hilton not only has experience in all of this but
their food is good quality, and every single ball held there in the
last year was an incredible success (not to mention tickets sold out
for ALL of them within a week of being on sale, showing again the
huge demand for them (amongst the wider university))
Also ultimately the Ball Committee (the people actually organizing
it) have decided this as the best venue. And what it comes down to
is not whether the event *could* be better, but a kind of Yes/No as
to whether this event we are suggesting sounds like a worthwhile
investment for Unigames. I could negotiate to pay even less of the
deposit... maybe, though keeping in mind we are already paying
half/getting half. But this is looking like it will be a profitable
event, regardless of the money we have to outlay (which would be
doing absolutely nothing otherwise), and every profitable event we
have in the year is a good thing in my books.
I understand that these don't necessarily address all of the
concerns, and are not entirely complete answers (as some are based
on speculation, especially answer a) but I hope this at least
addresses some concerns.
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<https://www.facebook.com/oxinabox>
Lyndon 'Frames' White <https://www.facebook.com/oxinabox>A)
"Then keep in mind that people in Cameron Hall will be bringing +1's
and friends (moreso then an event like Terracon)"
Moreso than terracon? Citation needed. I suspect if you ask Alice,
for the list of teracon attendee's you will find large numbers of
nonCH regulars.
Also for reference how many people to a table?
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<https://www.facebook.com/rowan.ashwin>
Rowan Ashwin <https://www.facebook.com/rowan.ashwin>10. the point of
that statement was it is easier to convince a non member to come to
an event for one night, located in perth, then to drive 3 hours to
hang out for 3 days with a bunch of people they may not know very
well. This would be especially true for couples where one of the
couple is a non-member/ doesn't really know anyone. They *do* come
on Terracon occasionally but are few and far between.
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<https://www.facebook.com/rowan.ashwin>
Rowan Ashwin <https://www.facebook.com/rowan.ashwin>(10 people per
table, 18-20 tables would be ideal)
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<https://www.facebook.com/oxinabox>
Lyndon 'Frames' White <https://www.facebook.com/oxinabox>A) I see, I
honestly would like you to back that up with numbers.
B.) You are strawman-ing slightly there. The complain wasn't clash
with own events, it was Clash with other expensive events. Also
Citation on Teracon not happening. I spoke to the director os
student services, a few weeks back, and as far as he was concerned
it could happen again and that they had already had talked with
Unisfa about how to make sure it could
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<https://www.facebook.com/rowan.ashwin>
Rowan Ashwin <https://www.facebook.com/rowan.ashwin>Yeah its a
slight Strawman but there is still alot of truth behind it and
Terracon is still classed as an expensive event. Speak to ANYONE in
unisfa committee, and you'll know that its practically guaranteed
not to happen next year. Also it is very difficult for me to back up
a) with numbers, as you well know, but I assure you it will be the
most enthusiastically advertised event of the year.
17 minutes ago
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<https://www.facebook.com/oxinabox>
Lyndon 'Frames' White <https://www.facebook.com/oxinabox>C) "The
ball Committee"? Neither Unigames, nor UCC has ever voted to put a
representativeness on a Ball Committee. Neither UCC or Unigames has
voted to put a person onto the CH forum either (and thus CH forum
has no mandate).
also, don't be too influenced by Kate. While she is influential and
good at arguing her points. She is far from a typical member, these
days. Her priorities are different.
She is not a undergrad student (is she even a student all all?),
and she has alot more money than most. I don't think she has ever
been in a position alot of CH people have, of having to scrimp for
food money.
Have you been to the Town Hall? I was at a wedding there a few weeks
back. It is swanky, and nice. We wouldn't need to spend hardly
anything on decorating.
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<https://www.facebook.com/oxinabox>
Lyndon 'Frames' White <https://www.facebook.com/oxinabox>A) it is
not at all hard to back up teracons attendance with numbers of nonCH
regular attendee's. I can do that myself, trivially. I know Unisfa
has a list of all attendees from this year, as it was given to the
University as part of the complaint inve...See More
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<https://www.facebook.com/oxinabox>
Lyndon 'Frames' White <https://www.facebook.com/oxinabox>WRT numbers
an option would be to Super PreSell tickets, prior to the deposit
being made, at/below cost. Super Early Bird. This would give some
idea of how much actual intrest there is
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<https://www.facebook.com/oxinabox>
Lyndon 'Frames' White <https://www.facebook.com/oxinabox>Do people
mind if I share a copy of this thread with other people?
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<https://www.facebook.com/rowan.ashwin>
Rowan Ashwin <https://www.facebook.com/rowan.ashwin>In a Unigames
meeting we did agree that me and Sarah were the representatives in
charge of the ball. Sam Shenton (who supposedly has the power to
speak on behalf of his committee... at least moreso then anyone
else) is representative from UCC, so I feel like the committee was
actually a thing that people agreed to. Though I will take your
suggestion of town hall to Kate and seriously debate it out. also I
don't really mind if you share the thread, but keep in mind alot of
the details aren't completely set in stone.
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<https://www.facebook.com/oxinabox>
Lyndon 'Frames' White <https://www.facebook.com/oxinabox>Town Hall
isn't actually my suggestion, it is more just an example that other
options exist.
(Though i do think that the Town Hall could work, quiet well.)
WRT selection you and Sarah as representatives in charge of the
ball, at least my thoughts on that discussion, was the committee
took the idea of a ball so seriously, that we might as well have
said: "Yes, you guys can be king and queen of R'lyeh."
But yeah, you are right, that was generally agreed to.
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Lyndon 'Frames' White <https://www.facebook.com/oxinabox>Ok, all the
teracon hut lists can be found on
http://wiki.unisfa.asn.au/Terracon?action=info
I did a count for 2009 (my first year), a fairly conservitive year
for bringing outsiders, and oursiders made up: 18/61 attendee's ie 29%
in 2012, a notably high year for outsiders, 39/101 ie 39%
These counts are kinda rough, but should provide a some indication.
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<https://www.facebook.com/oxinabox>
Lyndon 'Frames' White <https://www.facebook.com/oxinabox>Why would
Science Union grab a table?
They have their own ball?
I've not heard of members beyond there committee being around and
involved, though i guess that is because they haven't finished
setting there room up.
You think their committee is going to buy a table?
At $130/ticket that is quiet a show of support
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<https://www.facebook.com/oxinabox>
Lyndon 'Frames' White <https://www.facebook.com/oxinabox>Also C)
"(not to mention tickets sold out for ALL of them within a week of
being on sale, showing again the huge demand for them (amongst the
wider university))"
How many of those balls held there before were Faculty Soc. Balls?
Fac Socs have thousands of members, only a small portion of which
attend the ball.
We are in the opposite position, we have at best a pool of hundreds
of people who might be interested, (inc partners and friends), the
majority of which would have to attend for us to get the numbers we
need.
Don't be over confidant with the ability to get numbers. JVB thought
we could easily 60 people for wizard camp.
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<https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.vanburen.5>
Jonathan Van Buren
<https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.vanburen.5>Terracon is not out of
the ball park. Do not count on that.
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Ben Reynolds <https://www.facebook.com/benareynolds>I would just
like to point out that Frames more conservative estimates of Wizard
Camp attendance turned out to be much more accurate than the wild
"we'll easily get 60+!" estimates committee was coming up with at
the time.
(aha frames already pointed that out, didn't see that! Anyway point
seconded)
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